Alarm Zone Issues-Help Please

[xplicet]

SAIDSA the governing body for alarm systems and installers has a code of standards to prevent any guy wiring up a few sensors and calling it an alarm system. In the fine print of insurance policies they will refer to this standard. I'm sure 95% of claims aren't investigated but if they do need to and look into the alarm system installation they will refer to SAIDSA standards. This includes things like the alarm panel and keypad must be in a area of detection(passive) etc

You can liken this "law" to crashing your car and insurers not paying out because your tyre tread was to low. Its a standards thing to protect the insurer.

[xplicet]

A citation then? Then we all know.

http://www.saidsa.co.za/Bylaw25.pdf

refer section 4.1

Note this is bylaw25 which MOST insurers refer to but not necessarily all.

[h0stag3]

SAIDSA the governing body for alarm systems and installers has a code of standards to prevent any guy wiring up a few sensors and calling it an alarm system. In the fine print of insurance policies they will refer to this standard. I'm sure 95% of claims aren't investigated but if they do need to and look into the alarm system installation they will refer to SAIDSA standards. This includes things like the alarm panel and keypad must be in a area of detection(passive) etc

You can liken this "law" to crashing your car and insurers not paying out because your tyre tread was to low. Its a standards thing to protect the insurer.

Unless it is explicitly stated in your policy they can stand on their heads and whistle something through their anuses.

So I googled a bit.

"WHAT IS BYLAW 25?
FROM SOUTH AFRICAN INTRUDER DETECTION
ASSOCIATION - 2007
SAIDSA Bylaw 25 is an intruder alarm installation
standard which governs installations performed by
approved members of the South African Intruder
Detection Service Association (SAIDSA) when required
to do so by the insurance industry or requested the
client.
A certified Bylaw 25 installation offers the client more
comprehensive protection. The installation company
must issue the client with a certificate certifying that
the installation is done according to Bylaw 25. SAIDSA
will randomly inspect certified installations. Installers
of certified installations will also have to enter into
maintenance contracts with clients.
It is important to note that only SAIDSA members who
are approved for installations of intruder alarms are
permitted to issue an installation certificate.
The purpose of a certified installation, is that insurers
may recognize the installation in question as having
been carried out in compliance with the SAIDSA Bylaw
25, and therefore of a higher and controlled standard.
WHEN IS A BYLAW 25 INSTALLATION REQUIRED?
In most cases an insurer will call for a Bylaw 25
installation or upgrade but this may not always be the
case. The client may also request a Bylaw 25 certified
installation in order to ensure that the installation is
performed to a strict standard and certified, giving the
client peace of mind and providing a method of
recourse against the installer should anything go
wrong.
A Bylaw 25 installation could be called for in the
following instances:
After assessing the risk, an insurer may request it
prior to providing insurance cover.
After a burglary, an insurer may request an
installation or upgrade to Bylaw 25.
If a client’s risk profile changes, the insurer may
request an installation or upgrade.
If a client requests it.
The following should be noted:
The certificate is not a guarantee that the installation
complies with any standards of workmanship or that it
is free of defects.
The certificate does not constitute in any way a
manufacturer’s warranty nor will it guarantee
insurability.
Should the service of any one of the SAIDSA approved
service providers, namely the installation company,
reaction company or central station be terminated,
the certificate will be null and void.
SAIDSA does not accept any liability for any loss, cost,
expense, liability or damage of any nature suffered by
the client or a third party as a result of a reliance on
the certificate.
SAIDSA does not accept any responsibility or liability
for any defect there may be in the installation or any
loss suffered by any party due to the installation’s
failure to operate at any time.
In the interest of maintaining installation standards of
member companies, SAIDSA reserves the right to
inspect any installation.
It is the responsibility of the client to test the system
at two-weekly intervals and advise the installation
company of any system faults or modification of the
risk.
A maintenance agreement, as defined in Bylaw 25
must be entered into between the Installation /
Service Company and the client.
All certificates and/or guarantees provided by the
installer will be null and void if any third party, other
than the installation company, including the user
tampers, adds, removes or replaces any equipment in
the installation.
Where a Bylaw 25 installation is not required, SAIDSA
members are required to installation is not required,
SAIDSA members are required to install to a standard
installation specification. (See Page 22)"

Seems like just another way to make money by certifying something.

So, sorry. An alarm is an alarm is an alarm. If your insurers request additional items like it being linked to armed response or what not then you must maar do it.

But WTF does it matter if I have 16 PIR sensors attached to 1 zone on an alarm? If any of them are triggered, the siren is going off and if linked the armed response will be notified.

BS IMHO.

[henno777]

Yes you can. I have the 816 installation manual that gives you much more options than the standard user manual.

Just to clarify, you still need to rewire the zones as described by H0stag3 above! Rewire the PIRs which you want to control to a different zone.

[h0stag3]

Just to clarify, you still need to rewire the zones as described by H0stag3 above! Rewire the PIRs which you want to control to a different zone.

I like the IDS alarms. Quite a bit of programming can be done and they are cheap! I mean R210 for an 8zone expander is a bargain :-D.

How many free zones do you have Bertie?

In one of my zones I have 2 sensors on one zone. Redundancy. You just need a different resistor when connecting them, but it is in the manual.

[Bertie1]

I like the IDS alarms. Quite a bit of programming can be done and they are cheap! I mean R210 for an 8zone expander is a bargain :-D.

How many free zones do you have Bertie?

In one of my zones I have 2 sensors on one zone. Redundancy. You just need a different resistor when connecting them, but it is in the manual.

I have three free zones, so I do not know why this guy connected three PIR's to one Zone. I will have look later at the setup more closely and give some feedback. Thanks

Would like to add two outside beams too...

[h0stag3]

I have three free zones, so I do not know why this guy connected three PIR's to one Zone. I will have look later at the setup more closely and give some feedback. Thanks

Would like to add two outside beams too...

The lounge, loft and tv room nearby each other or share common entry points or windows?

Look, adding more individual zones is just a better form of knowing where a zone was triggered. It also makes it more flexible to bypass certain zones etc etc. In my house, each room has its own zone. It just makes it handy to know what zone was triggered. But if you have all 16 sensors on one zone you still have an alarm, but it is not as flexible.

Outside sensors on an alarm meant for inside? You don't like your sleep? :-D

The new IDS X64 is cheaper than the 816, is expandable up to 64zones, has a nifty LCD keypad and many nice features. Get that and use the 816 to run the outside sensors. Flexibility again :-).

Helped my dad with his. Fancy stuff :-D

But again, connecting 8 outside sensors to one zone will just notify you if something was triggered, not where... you just have to decide what you need, your time and your budget.

[Poentang]

First, I'm sorry to hear you have an IDS.
Second you have three detectors that are connected in series.This is illegal according to SAIDSA and to be honest not very clever from thetechnicians point of view. The new bylaw 25 states one detector per zone andmust be double end of line to monitor tampers.
Almost no alarm companies out there follows this and hashardly a clue on what they are doing.
Drop the IDS and get a Videofied. Pricy but you will neverlook back.

[boondog]

First, I'm sorry to hear you have an IDS.
Second you have three detectors that are connected in series.This is illegal according to SAIDSA and to be honest not very clever from thetechnicians point of view. The new bylaw 25 states one detector per zone andmust be double end of line to monitor tampers.
Almost no alarm companies out there follows this and hashardly a clue on what they are doing.
Drop the IDS and get a Videofied. Pricy but you will neverlook back.

I also have a IDS but looking for a GSM based system, this Videofied looks pretty cool, who sells the stuff in the Centurion area ?

[Poentang]

I also have a IDS but looking for a GSM based system, this Videofied looks pretty cool, who sells the stuff in the Centurion area ?

Got the Videofied from Monitor Net in Centurion, but i think the dealers are also based in Centurion. The best part of the system is the fact that it is ESKOM FREE. The video is cool to see why the alarm was triggered and helps me sleep at night when it was only the dam cat jumping onto the wall and pass the detector. I will look for the sales guys name and PM you