Some post apocalypse semi auto questions

[prepare2win]

currently getting 7,62x39 for R5/round. Since the AK is by far the most prolific rifle ever made and in use by so many non-nato countries milsurp ammo is not going to be in short supply. (touch wood)

I have no real experience with a dashprod beyond holding one in the gunshop, but it concerns me that they don't make power factor for IPSC. Not worried from a sport point of view, just lack of oomph.

[spiggs]

The not too distant future may bring some pleasant surprises. :-)



They are still being manufactured in the normal course. All tooling is present. Receivers are still being made as are barrels and all components.

Incidentally, a little known fact is that the barrels are cold hammer forged. There are reported instances of R barrels doing in excess of 100,000 rounds and still being serviceable.

The more I learn about them the more I discover its an absolutely superb piece of kit, if a little heavy.

IMHO an AR is great gun and gives more far options but it is arguably not quite as idiot proof and robust as an LM. YMMV.

All of this and then some! Nothing like an R4, I predict we will still see them around for a long time to come! Even if in another guise. Great platform and here to stay

[Wanderin' Zero]

Wanderin Zero I saw the price of the Norinco, but also saw some negative review's from the US on this Brand. Do you have some practical experience with it, or someone else?

Norinco is a pretty good brand all round as far as cost effective products are concerned. Their AK's are as good as anyone else's, their 1911 clones are commonly used as bases for competition guns (by all accounts the steel is very good) and they manufacture all kinds of kit for the Chinese military. Why wouldn't they be able to build a decent AR? All AR's can give trouble. Beware of negative comments on Chinese products from within the US - China bashing is a common sport. Rather see if you can find commentary by the Canadians - which seem to be quite positive about the Norinco. Call Dave Sheer and talk to them about the gun as they are the main importers. They'll tell you pretty honestly if they've had comebacks and I doubt they have.

I'll be honest - I like the AR platform but I am not one of the runaway fanboys. I simply see it as one of a constellation of choices out there and IMHO there are reasons why people like Sig Sauer and Heckler & Koch have redesigned certain aspects of the platform.

I must be honest since I did my training and also acted as an instructor on the R5 when I was in the army I enjoyed the positive feedback on my first post about the LM platform. Having said that, what is the availability of aftermarket products such as torches and lasers and so on the LM platform?

The aftermarket product options are pretty much the same. The issue with the LM series at the moment is the absence of Denel manufactured mounting options. I have excellent reasons for believing that that is going to change in the not too distant future, at least as far as the military is concerned. In the meantime, there are a few alternative options on the civilian market, depending upon your desires. BTW, lasers (as opposed to optics) are a bad idea. They tend to attract incoming. :-)

pre PO scenario, what is the avaliabilty of the 7.62x39 currently in SA?( legally of course)

At the moment supply is fairly good but all imported and mostly from the old Commbloc. Will likely improve as PMP are gearing up to manufacture the same for the African market. I also have excellent reasons for saying that in the future the R4/5/6 may well be chambered for 7.62 x 39. The driver is apparently the ready availability of the stuff across Africa. I wonder though whether the powers that be have considered that that may result in the SANDF's own stocks being used against them?

- also a couple of mentions about the Saiga M3, price and availabilty? Locally?

Don't know.

having spent some time in the company of an R5 in some peculiar places, I would so much enjoy if I can own two of them. What can I budget for a good second hand LM 5? Or LM 6.

They have become quite expensive and are pushing towards AR prices. You're talking somewhere from R13 to R16k, depending upon what exactly, who is buying and selling, just how new it is and what options have been added. But if you hunt around a *lot* you *may* still get lucky for a fair bit less. LM6's have become fairly hard to find. IMHO, the 5 is a better option because of bullet velocity. Remember, the 5.56 has to *move* to be effective.

is the Dashprod a bad rifle or is the 5 simply better?

Depends upon who you ask. It's a cheap rifle - essentially an AK - for the security industry. I know of at least one business that has been pretty keen to replace theirs. Look, the gun will work and will run for many years but the bottom line is that you're getting what you're paying for.

ps. My dream platfom would be an R1/ FAL with shortend barrel and folding stock in 7,62 naturally. See there is plenty of refurbished R1 for about R9000. Is there civilian gunsmiths that can pimp this platform? Folding stock, super short barrel and rails that can carry torches/lasers? Remember the idia is close quarters

It will be cheaper to buy one that has already been made that way. There are quite a few around. I saw one at Tacshac a week ago.

[ady]

At the moment supply is fairly good but all imported and mostly from the old Commbloc. Will likely improve as PMP are gearing up to manufacture the same for the African market. I also have excellent reasons for saying that in the future the R4/5/6 may well be chambered for 7.62 x 39. The driver is apparently the ready availability of the stuff across Africa. I wonder though whether the powers that be have considered that that may result in the SANDF's own stocks being used against them?

Bare in mind that we can't make new R series rifles. Israel revocked our license.

[Wanderin' Zero]

Bare in mind that we can't make new R series rifles. Israel revocked our license.

I previously made that statement. It's just plain wrong. I can tell you firsthand that a. Denel are making new rifles every day of the week b. no license fees are paid and c. there is further development happening.

[ady]

I previously made that statement. It's just plain wrong. I can tell you firsthand that a. Denel are making new rifles every day of the week b. no license fees are paid and c. there is further development happening.

Interesting WZ. I have heard from more than one source that Israel revoked our license to carry on producing R series riles. Did Denel not sell off their tooling to make new rifles?

[Wanderin' Zero]

Interesting WZ. I have heard from more than one source that Israel revoked our license to carry on producing R series riles. Did Denel not sell off their tooling to make new rifles?

Both, it appears, are nonsense stories doing the rounds. All the tooling and equipment is present and operational.

[300H&H]

WZ, seems you have some info on the SANDF and Denell, info that have to potential to influence my future plans. Do tell!!

sory for being daft but I am still not sure about the availability of productsfor the LM platform

[ady]

What are you looking for 300H&H?

You can get different stocks, rails, pistol grips, fore grip with or without a bipod for the LM5, fore-ends etc for the LM's. You can add wml's, optics lazers etc to a LM anything that uses a rail. You can get mags and spares for the rifle. I even have a bayonet for the R4.

[Herne]

The not too distant future may bring some pleasant surprises. :-)

:) :)
That sounds pleasing. Is this connected with the whole African Warrior thing?