ACOG or scope

DS · 06-07-2013, 17:22

Originally Posted by Cairbre

I hear what you're saying and I've actually been youtubing a bunch of 1-4s this morning as a result. The Vortex PST 1-4 is looking rather attractive as an option as it has a daylight illuminated reticle, a zero stop, mrad reticle, and best of all, it won't entirely break the bank (6-8k depending on where you look). It looks like the Meopta comes in at around 9k? I'd love to get a 1-6, but it seems to be the price on those go up very rapidly, and probably not that much benefit to me as the majority of my shooting is likely to happen at sub 100m. It probably makes sense to just get a second scope if I want to shoot further.

I haven't had the opportunity to test out an eotech so I really have no idea if it will work. I may just have to make a trip out to you guys to take a look at your sights.

Imo it is not going to be easy to find a 1-4x scope with a TRUE 1x magnification and a proper daylight capable illuminated reticle and with excellent glass for cheaper than the Meopta.

**Andy37** · 07-07-2013, 11:50

I too suffer from 'old eyes' now, and accordingly have had to start switching from my much loved Aimpoint RDSs to something that gives me some chance of even seeing small targets past 100m. I have settled on the ACOG TA33s- not cheap, but some of the finest optics I have ever shot with. Although they go on my 'longer range' rifles, using the Bindon technique they work just fine at how-do-you-do range too. Tough, reliable, and battle proven, versatile and crystal clear- well worth taking a look at. The only downside is that they are pricey.

**Cairbre** · 07-07-2013, 12:10

Originally Posted by Khumba

Imo it is not going to be easy to find a 1-4x scope with a TRUE 1x magnification and a proper daylight capable illuminated reticle and with excellent glass for cheaper than the Meopta.

Btw, do you have any idea how large that centre dot is on the Meopta at 1/4? The internet seems to be very conflicted on this, with info anywhere between 2 and 8moa at 1x and being a SFP scope, a quarter of that at 4x. Also, I'm wondering if a bright illuminated reticle is not going to have the same effect that a RDS does, in which case I'll be running without illumination 99% of the time in the day anyways, so I'm not sure if illumination is that important to me.

**Cairbre** · 07-07-2013, 12:16

Originally Posted by Andy37

I too suffer from 'old eyes' now, and accordingly have had to start switching from my much loved Aimpoint RDSs to something that gives me some chance of even seeing small targets past 100m. I have settled on the ACOG TA33s- not cheap, but some of the finest optics I have ever shot with. Although they go on my 'longer range' rifles, using the Bindon technique they work just fine at how-do-you-do range too. Tough, reliable, and battle proven, versatile and crystal clear- well worth taking a look at. The only downside is that they are pricey.

I really like the ACOGs, but at their prices, it's pretty tough to swallow.

Just did some research of Bindon technique. My non-dominant eye (left) is extremely weak. I literally cannot see the identify a target at 100m with my left eye, it's just a giant blur. It's why using different optical magnifications with both eyes open is pretty easy for me. My brain just ignores whatever my left eye is seeing.

DS · 07-07-2013, 12:39

Originally Posted by Cairbre

Btw, do you have any idea how large that centre dot is on the Meopta at 1/4? The internet seems to be very conflicted on this, with info anywhere between 2 and 8moa at 1x and being a SFP scope, a quarter of that at 4x. Also, I'm wondering if a bright illuminated reticle is not going to have the same effect that a RDS does, in which case I'll be running without illumination 99% of the time in the day anyways, so I'm not sure if illumination is that important to me.

I think it is 2moa.

Re oval dot syndrome - you need to check it out in hand but I think there is a difference between a projected dot like on an Aimpont and a reticle dot on a scope. I also think there may be a difference for you with a holographic sight like the Eotech?.

I find with my Acog that the bindon concept just does not work for me , maybe my type of deficiency older eyes l I do not know, but when I have 2 eyes open CQB with the Acog and aim on the small image target with the large image super imposed and then close my non dominant eye and only use my dominantt eye and the magnified image I ma not centered on the target as I was with the smakk image....

**M43** · 08-07-2013, 22:02

If you suffer from astigmatism you should perhaps consider a Leopold Prismatic Tactical. I have one on my AR. It has a reticle and dot etched on the glass but it has an reticle illumination function for dark conditions. I decided on the Leopold after I compared different reticles (I think someone posted a thread on Gunsite with pictures of every possible type of reticle) I don't have astigmatism but I cannot see red dots (they wash out in the sun) The black dot works well for me. If you Google Leopold Prismatic you will find a lot of endorsements by US contractors / military operators in their 40's who suffer from astigmatism. Rescomp has a Leopold or two in stock I think. And being a Leopold it comes with all the hardware to mount it. But they are pricey.

**Cairbre** · 09-07-2013, 12:18

Originally Posted by M43

If you suffer from astigmatism you should perhaps consider a Leopold Prismatic Tactical. I have one on my AR. It has a reticle and dot etched on the glass but it has an reticle illumination function for dark conditions. I decided on the Leopold after I compared different reticles (I think someone posted a thread on Gunsite with pictures of every possible type of reticle) I don't have astigmatism but I cannot see red dots (they wash out in the sun) The black dot works well for me. If you Google Leopold Prismatic you will find a lot of endorsements by US contractors / military operators in their 40's who suffer from astigmatism. Rescomp has a Leopold or two in stock I think. And being a Leopold it comes with all the hardware to mount it. But they are pricey.

The Prismatics look like very nice optics, but I've definitely decided I want some sort of magnification: probably in the 1-4 range. Just need to figure out which one to pick now.

**superlarry** · 22-07-2013, 16:40

Originally Posted by Cairbre

The Prismatics look like very nice optics, but I've definitely decided I want some sort of magnification: probably in the 1-4 range. Just need to figure out which one to pick now.

When you've figured it out please let me know!

I'm similarly undecided, I shoot iron sights on my NEA pretty well at the moment. Most of my shooting is CQB distances so this is not surprising. However I would like options for longer range shots 100-200 yards. I'm still doing my research but the options I seem to have are:

1. Some sort of 1-4x scope mounted on top with an RDS on a 45 deg mount. This seems to be popular as a 3-gun setup BUT it means I'll be doing most of my shooting at 45 degrees

2. An EOTECH XPS with a 3x magnifier.

Price wise an XPS with magnifier will be getting close to ACOG territory. ACOGs are not something I know much about, but may become an option. Is the magnification fixed? Or can it be varied easily?

**Cairbre** · 22-07-2013, 17:06

Originally Posted by superlarry

When you've figured it out please let me know!

I'm similarly undecided, I shoot iron sights on my NEA pretty well at the moment. Most of my shooting is CQB distances so this is not surprising. However I would like options for longer range shots 100-200 yards. I'm still doing my research but the options I seem to have are:

1. Some sort of 1-4x scope mounted on top with an RDS on a 45 deg mount. This seems to be popular as a 3-gun setup BUT it means I'll be doing most of my shooting at 45 degrees

2. An EOTECH XPS with a 3x magnifier.

Price wise an XPS with magnifier will be getting close to ACOG territory. ACOGs are not something I know much about, but may become an option. Is the magnification fixed? Or can it be varied easily?

Why not a 1-4 with decent eye relief and a cat tail? That way you can very rapidly switch between magnifications. One thing to consider with a 45deg mount is that if you ever have to switch shoulders, you will struggle to use that sight.

ACOGs are fixed magnification. Hence why many don't consider them that great for CQB. I suppose if you're rolling in cash you could get an ACOG with a RMR on top :). Be prepared to cough up the price of a new AR for this.

I have no experience with Eotechs or the magnifier, though I've read that the magnifier can unbalance the rifle because it swings out to the side and also becomes a potential snag point. I have no idea if this is a serious concern though.

Right now I'm heavily leaning towards a Vortex PST 1-4, or the Meopta ZD 1-4 with a 1 piece QD mount (LT104). I have some leave coming up next week so I'll probably take Khumba up on his offer and swing by Hailstorm to check out his optics. I'm really keen to see if a lighted, etched reticle (Meopta) has the same effect as RDS; I suspect the etched reticle will work well for me.

DS · 22-07-2013, 17:11

Acog is fixed - so you have to check it out and decide you can work with the 3x magnification, for example, for CQB work.

Imo the 4x is not an option due to very restricted eye relief because that will slow you down more than needed for cqb work.

The Eotech and magnifier is a very viable option especially if your use is mostly CQB because you will have a good rds for that and a good rds is faster than the 1x setting on a variable scope.