Reverse edge tactics

[47]

Hi all

I have recently started researching reverse edge knife methods for CQB work (seeing as that a blade would usually be my secondary weapon if needed). At first the tactics didn't make much sense, especially when you are looking at "longer range" use, but now I have to admit that it seems as if they have got something here, especially then for close quarters use. It has a lot to do with the optimal alignment of the wrist to the forearm (which IMO is the reason why the Ka-Bar TDI is so good) and the better grip you are allowed with less chance of the blade slipping or being knocked out of your hand. Granted, with enough training most methods should work in the end, but seeing as this would be my secondary weapon, less time will be spend on it.

What are your thoughts on this? I know that Khumba and Ciappa_R has experience with reverse edge tactics. What do you think of Shivworks' Clinch Pick and Disciple? The carry set-up seems ideal.

http://www.shivworks.com/clinchpick.asp

[ikor]

I will get both DVDs pretty soon (actually as soon as I can find a place to buy them) but in the mean time here is a review oif the Disciple for you. (although Kumba may be a better source of info on this knife for what we are doing with blades and CCW)

http://www.donrearic.com/disciple.html

[DS]

47 can I play? ;D

Draw point / Reverse Edge is imo the simplest, quickest, most powerful method of knife SD use.

I am by no means a pro or super proficient or whatever - I have trained with Kelly Worden, I have done Amok, and imo they all need a advanced level of proficiency to be effective and fast.

DP/RE works on the principle of reverse grip but with the edge in or towards the user. The knife is ideally worn strong hand or support hand (depending on the primary reason for carry) appendix position.

RE/DP is very fast into action and very fast on to target because of the short distance from the carry position to the target with no change of arc or fine manipulations to get it on target - build some muscle mem and you will see.

It is very KISS - I have worked through the Shivworks DVD's and tried the stuff .

It is very powerful - it works on the principle of leverage with the arm in the pulling/drawing back/contracting motion utilising the strongest muscles of the biceps and forearm .

It relies on gross motor skills = a mainline advantage imo.

The Disciple lends itself extremely well to this method of carry and use and was designed specifically for the system.

There are other knives, albeit custom, that are designed and dedicated for the same system http://www.reknives.com/index.html

I am waiting for a Blackhawk Kalista (SWATTIE grn1) to try in this method because I think it will lend itself well to the system and if it does it will provide a more affordable option than the custom designed ones.

More info here http://www.reknives.com/technique.htm

and here http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/shivworks.htm

my previous post on the issue http://www.gunsite.co.za/forum/index.php?topic=1127.0

If you are in my area you are welcome to try the Disciple or Clinch Pick and the trainers - btw I do not sell them - I have my two models and the trainers.

[ciappa_r]

Hey 47,
Thanks for your post happy0065

Well I guess there are pro's and con's to all edged weapon tactics, but the most important thing is that we keep an open mind confused0083
I tend to favour reverse edge tactics (with the blade in) for the most part because in the ECQ range where I am very likely to have to deal with my aggressor it allows for confined deployment and an optimal, thrust heavy application. Istill believe that SouthNarc’s interpretation of ‘Pikal’ is the best explanation that I have read to date (but more on this a little later). I have done quite a bit of ‘pressure testing’ with this method, and the beauty is that besides utilizing a gross motor skill set the reverse edge method (blade in) allows one to clear any interrupted line by hooking the obstructing limb and both shearing and clearing it EFFECTIVELY!

Another bonus is that if you happen you use this method with a your EDC folder you will in essence be working ‘into’ the locking mechanism and not against it. So regardless of how ‘accomplished’ the locking mechanism is (liner, ball lock, compression lock axis lock etc.) you do not have to worry much about the blade ‘snapping back’ onto your fingers.

I have created a section on my website dedicated specifically to reverse edge methods/tactics and will constantly be updating this section with new information (as and when I happen to find it) ... http://pdssa.webs.com/articlesofinterest.htm#393104676

Khumba, I think that you are going to be readily impressed by the setup, speed and efficency of weilding the Kalista - In my opinion a very viable and cheaper alternative (although I STILL want the Disciple ... When there is eventually stock!) ;D

BE Safe guys

Kind regards,
RobertC
www.pdssa.webs.com
www.pdssa.wordpress.com

[ikor]

Dang! Now I want a Disciple and NO one has any in stock! md217

[DS]

Ikor, you will be impressed with the Disciple - it's very light and fast and secure in hand as well as very easy to draw very quickly. I advise to get the trainer as well.

Robert, I agree and will let you guys know how the Kalista stack up to the Disciple.

[47]

Dang! Now I want a Disciple and NO one has any in stock! md217

Me too! grn Ikor, if you come across a source, please let me know!

Thanks Ikor, Khumba and Ciappa_r for your responses and for adding fuel to the fire! ;D And thanks then for screwing my budget for the next two years, because now Mrs. 47 want a Clinch Pick as well....... whp

Seriously, I truly value your input and experience, and have learned a great deal from your posts.

I am largely sold on the Pikal method, but just an academic question: Is it not "easier" in theory to defend against a thrusting style than against a stabbing and slashing style, because the latter might have more variables and angles? I know that in reality it will not matter much, and when you're up against a blade you're screwed anyways.

[DS]

47 when you see the Shivworks DVD on the reverse edge use you will understand how difficult it is to defend against the RE/P'kal method.

After "punching" out with the blade (it's not an overhead motion but rather a punch from the appendix area where you located the knife, straight to the target ) it cuts anything in the way coming back - IMO very difficult to evade a cut if you have limbs in the way trying to block or evade the knife. If you are blocked on the punch it will be difficult for the opponent to evade a cut when you pull back because his hand/s and arm/s will be in the vicinity due to blocking diverting the blade.

Punching out is very fast and the pulling back in motion is is very powerful - more so than a swipe after a "normal" thrust.

I also think it is a more "unusual" way of using a knife and will most probably be unexpected on the opponent who will also most probably not know or realise soon enough that you are operating edge in.

[47]

Hey Khumba

OK I hear what you say.... I was only thinking about the tip and forgot about the reverse edge for a moment... Think I should get the DVD's as well!


Thanks.

[DS]

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