Your no.1 pick in carry ammo?

**Brendank** · 06-10-2009, 17:19

Originally Posted by ikor

Recently a friend who is a Lt. in a Sheriff's Office about 100 miles from me sent me an email about an incident where two of his guys put 9 Gold Dot 230gr JHPs into a 74 year old man who was shooting at them with a 9mm. 6 were COM, two were in his right thigh and the 9th stopped the gunfight when it struck his pistol and disabled it. They had to wrestle him down to cuff him. He was fully conscious when loaded into the ambulance and only died 2 hours later at the ER. Tox screen was negative for alcohol or dope. Abnormal? Yes, but any gunfight is the exception to the 'rule'. I did not say it first but it is the truth...

Amateurs talk hardware...professionals talk software (and logistics)

Fair enough, I am an amateur; but I still think reliable equipment is ESSENTIAL.
Training always comes first, but without reliable equipment; you had may as well not bother.

**MyLani** · 06-10-2009, 17:32

I'm really happy with my Winchester Silvertips.
Don't know how they'll perform, but they'll be better than FMJ's.
I've seen FMJ's do the trick, so it's all about shot placement.
Saying that, I feel far more confident putting a Silvertip into the "wrong" place, than a FMJ...

**Brendank** · 06-10-2009, 17:43

Originally Posted by MyLani

I'm really happy with my Winchester Silvertips.
Don't know how they'll perform, but they'll be better than FMJ's.
I've seen FMJ's do the trick, so it's all about shot placement.
Saying that, I feel far more confident putting a Silvertip into the "wrong" place, than a FMJ...

They do work, provided placement is good and no real intermediate barrier is involved.
Would be alot happier if Winchester made them in 124gr 9x19 (+P+ loading would be good too!).

**Porramedic** · 06-10-2009, 18:26

Originally Posted by MyLani

Saying that, I feel far more confident putting a Silvertip into the "wrong" place, than a FMJ...

Sorry, man. Unfortunately the BG won't know that its a Silvertip and therefore will not drop dead.

**ikor** · 06-10-2009, 18:33

Brendan;

That saying is an old one and was not aimed at you or anyone specifically. I am just as guilty as the next guy of searching for the best, most reliable gear and ammo I can find and afford. It is, however a saying that should remind all of us that there are far more important issues involved than gear.

Human nature is to look to hardware to solve problems, and the great advances that have been made in all sorts of hardware, from tennis racquets to wireless communications, to computers to fighter jets, have been the result of the search for 'farther, faster, higher and better'. I think we all can agree, however, that the answer to improving ones performance is rarely to buy a new gee-whiz gadget. If the latest, greatest JHP out there will give me a 2% better chance at stopping a bad guy from harming me or my family, I will be on it like a duck on a June Bug, but if I can't find any, or can't afford the ones I find, I won't lose any sleep over it either.

I think it was Cooper who said that a trained man with a rifle was far more dangerous than a baboon in a medium tank.

**Brendank** · 06-10-2009, 21:37

Originally Posted by ikor

Brendan;

That saying is an old one and was not aimed at you or anyone specifically. I am just as guilty as the next guy of searching for the best, most reliable gear and ammo I can find and afford. It is, however a saying that should remind all of us that there are far more important issues involved than gear.

Human nature is to look to hardware to solve problems, and the great advances that have been made in all sorts of hardware, from tennis racquets to wireless communications, to computers to fighter jets, have been the result of the search for 'farther, faster, higher and better'. I think we all can agree, however, that the answer to improving ones performance is rarely to buy a new gee-whiz gadget. If the latest, greatest JHP out there will give me a 2% better chance at stopping a bad guy from harming me or my family, I will be on it like a duck on a June Bug, but if I can't find any, or can't afford the ones I find, I won't lose any sleep over it either.

I think it was Cooper who said that a trained man with a rifle was far more dangerous than a baboon in a medium tank.

Ikor
Buddy, I know it wasn't aimed at me, so no worries! hpy180
I can only learn from the more experienced guys like you, esp. the guys with LE experience. I agree tactics/training is FAR more valuable than the latest equipment, I as you, want every possible advantage and was a little worried about the prospect of my carry ammo not working optimally.

Would love to see a baboon in a medium tank btw! confused0068 happy0065

**BigT** · 06-10-2009, 21:43

Thesecret is not to try substitue skill with equipment. Great gear is always better but if by buying the wizz bang hollow points you wont be able to afford practise ammo you are short changing yourself.

If the choices are buying JHPs of whatever description and not shooting or buying more boxes of ball and doing some shooting. Buy the ball.

**Armed Preacher** · 07-10-2009, 06:25

The keys are: (not mine but quoted from some or other website, can't remember which)

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances
of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

Basically all the standard service calibers work when fed good quality ammunition. The platform picked tends to dictate the caliber. For example, Glocks and Sigs tend to run best in 9 mm; the S&W M&P is the first .40 S&W pistol that seems to offer an ideal ergonomic and shooter friendly package; while a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. For folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with a S&W .45 ACP M&P, HK45, S&W 4566, or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.

Whatever you choose, make sure you fire at least 500 and preferably 1000 failure free shots through your pistol prior to using it for duty. If your pistol cannot fire at least 1000 consecutive shots without a malfunction, something is wrong and it is not suitable for duty/self-defense use.

**BigT** · 07-10-2009, 07:14

AP outstanding stuff from Doc Roberts. Who is funnily enough in the opinions of many , me included, THE ammo guy.

**deonh** · 07-10-2009, 07:20

I know that this may seem a little obtuse, but the one thing that constantly same to mind while reading the article, thinking about it and reading the various posts that followed was the reason or logic why/how Walter D.M. Bell was able to kill 1011 wild elephants with rifle in 7x57 using 173 grain military ammo at an average of 1.5 shots per elephant kill. And it has nothing to do with the gun, other than the fact that Bell was very comfortable and familiar with it, or the choice of ammo.