9mm SAPS ammunition used by a civilian

**mic** · 20-10-2013, 07:24

Norinco is a massive company and if they can make a couple of bucks on non-Warsaw calibres, then they would probably do it. I can only assume that the bulk of their production would go to traditional Warsaw calibre's.

**sarel.wagner** · 20-10-2013, 07:55

Originally Posted by M43

3. With all due respect; How can anyone who so obviously believes that the State is all knowing, all seeing, and out to get us all, and we don't stand a chance against it sign his posts with "Fight or die" ???????????? WTF?????

Hahaha go read post #90 again. The state cannot and does not know everything as already stated.

Officialdom individual members (not lawyers) knows even less about the Law than we do. Its about as clear as the Billion Rand (about) they spend per year on paying lawyers for being sued by the public they should protect and also paying the public for things like wrongful arrest.

These individuals we have to deal with (there are exceptions) interprets the Law differently and then that is where the problems start. You are welcome to carry RSA Milsurp. If it is not stolen then maybe if anyone asks you to inspect it you will be fine and not arrested. If you are wrongfully arrested than you and your lawyers will have to deal with it.

Me, there are plenty other options and that reduces my risk for not ending in a potentially bad situation of being arrested in the first place.

Fight or die is about not being a victim and being prepared.

Fight or Die....

**killzone** · 20-10-2013, 08:04

Originally Posted by Edwill

Current SAPS 9mm ammo does not even make 125 factor! Anything before 94 does however! I got quite a bit off the 223 as well, its pretty hot out my Mini 14, but goes bang every time!

I'm very curious. There is someone I know that exclusively shoots SAPS ammo in his Vektor SP1. The first time I saw him shoot, I thought he was running a SP2. His shots were noticeably louder than all the other guys on the range. I thought it was due to the ammo he's using. Do all SP1's 'bang' like that ? When I'm shooting SAPS-ammo I can't notice a difference compared to my self loaded-ammo. I regret never pulling a round to measure the bullet weight, the charge and the speed through the chrony. I started a thread a few months ago asking what the specs were as mentioned above. No one could answer me.

**M43** · 20-10-2013, 12:30

Hi Sarel, I have read your posts again and I have to be honest, I think you are "trolling" (if that is the correct word)

in your posts you state the following:
#32 "No matter how obtained its illegal to possess. Even with an invoice,___, its still illegal to have"
#43 "This section (4) is what they will use" (Referring to the section that makes it a punishable offence to damage, illegally remove or illegally dispose of military equipment)
#47: You are proclaiming that citizens of this country will be prosecuted, raped while in detention, and lose all their property "even if you are innocent."
#48: The SAPS showed up at an inter branch shoot checking headstamps. I think JS4 asked you where this happened, you still have not answered, why not??
#54: You again state "your life will be ruined even if innocent"

Nothing personal against you yourself Sarel, but your posts seem to be written from the perspective of "all is lost, the end is near, etc" and I regard your comments in the same light as that of the people who proclaim that they would rather not defend themselves because "You will be arrested."

FYI I was one of those "members of officialdom who knew nothing about the law" for almost 20 years.

If anyone truly believes the "Big Brother / Police State" scenario your posts sketch, then they really only have three choices:
1. Flee the country.
2. Join the resistance.
3. Become an informer.

You are welcome to take my comments personally, I find it really irritating (its a pet hate) when people insist on telling the rest of us Govt is coming to get us, and we will lose.

**sarel.wagner** · 20-10-2013, 12:48

Sorry to irritate you, not the intention and not trolling either and I do not have a horse in this race either, not selling anything. I used to be a member of SAP in the eighties and nineties myself being in Pollys Arcade for more than half of that time. Your comments are not taken personally. You are welcome to your opinion and neither of your options are appealing as you left a few out. But that is just me.

Fight or Die....

**PenDragon** · 20-10-2013, 16:54

This has been most entertaining, thanks to most for making me smile, bottom line is why bother taking the chance to use/carry ammo that might/will get you into trouble ?

Solution = just don't !

LOL

**HansSport** · 26-11-2013, 00:36

Eish. .... Berdan primer ammo is freely available and in 'hard ball' Now I was at a recent league and one of the participants literally had a case of these ammo that he was using. It was not in any way marked as military or in another way recognizable as anything but 9mm Para ammo.

BTW in. 223 also currently the cheapest ammo available is Berdan so The rumour that only military and saps ammo are berdan is only a rumour.

Enjoy.....

**mic** · 26-11-2013, 06:53

Originally Posted by killzone

I'm very curious. There is someone I know that exclusively shoots SAPS ammo in his Vektor SP1. The first time I saw him shoot, I thought he was running a SP2. His shots were noticeably louder than all the other guys on the range. I thought it was due to the ammo he's using. Do all SP1's 'bang' like that ? When I'm shooting SAPS-ammo I can't notice a difference compared to my self loaded-ammo. I regret never pulling a round to measure the bullet weight, the charge and the speed through the chrony. I started a thread a few months ago asking what the specs were as mentioned above. No one could answer me.

I must have missed it. All the of the old berdan ammo I have (pre-1992) have the following specifications:
Bullet weight - 115gr FMJ
Chronied speed - between 1245 and 1300 ft/sec