A Debate worth following ...
03 Dec 2013
An interesting debate on the comment pages of Pot-Shot between Gerhard Corejees en Pieter Spire is unfolding. The content of the debate is repeated here for the education of other readers and as an example how the internet can stimulate robust debate. Well done to Gerhard who took it on himself to educate Pieter on the nuances of hunting and to rationally defend hunting.

Pieter Spire posted this intial post (edited)

As a non-hunter, may I propose a solution to your dilemma? The key is honesty. Be honest why you hunt! I can almost guarantee that 70-80 percent of the non-hunting Citizen X will not have a problem if you are honest about why you hunt.
I agree with the assertion that hunting can be seen as a natural instinct in humans as Homo sapiens had to hunt meat for sustenance and survival. However, trophy hunting poses a new set of “ethical” justification. A common justification used is that hunting sustains the economy and brings foreign exchange into countries. While this correct, Citizen X looks beyond economic justification and focuses more on “ethical” reasons, especially those like me that have never been “inducted” into the “sport” of “harvesting” animals, which are also the wrong terminology by the way.
Many people are sick and tired of hearing hunters defending hunting on grounds of “economic grounds” as this elevates the hunter to a “gate keeper” and a sort of a god that may choose how a particular animal may be hunted and how much may be charged for the death of that animal. Please remember that in light of South Africa’s history and exploitation by European settlers and hunters, merely having the money to hunt a lion may be seen as being “arrogant”.
I have a number of solutions. Firstly, be honest. Tell the mature public that you love to hunt and that you derive pleasure out of the “thrill of the chase” as opposed to copping out on economic grounds. A kill is a kill nonetheless. One animal’s death is still a death and Citizen X will perceive it as that. Secondly, be sensitive to the feelings of others. Be careful about posting your kill on social media. Despite the “hype” 400 000 signatures in a couple of days reflect that the public is sensitive to hunting and that hunting photo’s should be posted with caution. Please remember that there are going to be people like me. Sensitive people with sensitive perceptions about what hunting is and sensitive to the fact that our children might be exposed to dead lions while browsing around on Facebook.

Gerhard Corejees answered as follows:

Pieter, the effort you have made (Internet research – and on Pot-Shot) to understand hunting, and hunters for that matter, is commendable!

Most non-hunters have limited and/or theoretical knowledge on hunting only, and therefore a restrictive and incorrect perception of hunting. Pieter, you were bold enough to admit that you do not really understand what hunting is.
Unfortunately, Wikipedea explains the term/word hunting, and not the practice itself!
As such the explanation given by most non-hunters is incomplete and perfunctory; or shall I say, rather superficial.

Pieter, from your referral to “mercy killings” and reference to “I know how it feels to kill”, as well as statements you have made elsewhere in Pot-Shot, I get the impression that your (incorrect) perception of hunting is dominated by the killing act mostly.
I will thus endeavor to first give a brief explain of the essential elements of hunting, and then indicate to you Why I Hunt.
There are 4 paradigm shifts to be made, to really understand what hunting is.

What IS Hunting?
Hunting can be explained as the Organized Practice of three essential process steps or phases namely, Thorough Panning and Preparation; Systematic Tracking & Location; and Humane Kill & Recovery.
For the hunting process to succeed, the hunter needs to be skillful in Bush Craft (Animal Behavior & Habitat), Hunting Techniques (Tracking and Recovery), as well as Weaponry and Marksmanship (Shot Placement and Humane Kill).
1st Required Paradigm Shift: Hunting is not a single action (killing), but a process.

The 2nd and 3rd phases of the hunting process is almost self explanatory, and I therefore want to elaborate more on the Planning and Preparation phase.
Planning and Preparation is the “insurance policy” for hunting success. This phase must not be confused with travel arrangements, planning & acquisition of resources, and adherence to legal requirements only. It involves mental and physical preparation as well.
Ending an animal’s life is not taken lightly! Guided by a hunters code, mental and emotionally preparation is required. For that reason a hunter will conduct a thorough study of the animal’s behavior, anatomy, and habitat (Bush Craft and Tracking).
Many hours will also be spent on the shooting range to ensure that a hunter knows his weapon, bullet trajectory, and accurate shot placement over various shooting distances that will bring about a humane kill (Weaponry & Marksmanship).
2nd Required Paradigm Shift: Hunting is a systematic process guided by a code of conduct and ethical principles.

As hunting can be physically challenging, time will be spent in the gym to build strength, endurance and flexibility. We must be able to persist on a spoor for many hours, and deal with natural elements of danger (Bush Craft & Hunting Techniques).

Trophy hunting basically follows the same hunting process with the same skills requirements, with the exception of hunting dangerous game species that elevates the intensity of the hunt to a much higher level. The hunter that does not know that a buffalo doesn’t mock charge like a lion and an elephant, is reserving a bed in hospital!

3rd Required Paradigm Shift: Hunting must be viewed as an Integrated Process that requires extensive competence!

When we talk about hunting, we can’t ignore and must also consider the valuable contributions of hunting. I refer to this as the “justifying” factors of hunting.
For instance, hunting does indeed contribute to conservation and job creation.
Your internet research confirmed that “hunting is a necessary component of modern wildlife management, for example, to help maintain a population of healthy animals within an environment's ecological carrying capacity”. This is Sustainable Utilisation!
It is a well known fact that the hunting industry creates many job opportunities on more than 10,000 hunting farms in SA. Addressing poverty!
What I really like about trophy hunters, apart from the economical benefits, is that when they hunt the animal with the biggest horns, they are taking out an animal that is fully matured, most of the time no longer fertile to impregnate the females and grow the herd yet they are strong enough to fight of the younger males that can increase and improve that animal population! It is also admirable that trophy hunters are willing to give the meat to the poor people in the local community.
It is evident then, that hunting supports the South African Conservation Strategy as well as the National Development Plan of our country!
4th Required Paradigm Shift: Hunting adds value to wildlife as well as people!

Please recall and consider all the above, when I now explain why I hunt!

Why I Hunt?
I hunt because I like it! Ek jag want dit is lekker!!

Hunting commences with the exciting planning and preparation phase; especially when I study and learn more about wild animals in their natural habitat. Did you know there are 29 buck species in SA, and each requires a different hunting technique? Do you know a bushbuck can swim very well? Whilst hunting a trophy ram I saw it swimming quickly through the Limpopo River only to escape in the thick Botswana bush on the other side … What an experience!
It is my intellectual capacity and hunting skill vs animal instinct. Everything I do is meaningful; I am working towards the achievement of a series of hunting goals, and I like it!

Hunting takes me into the heart of nature; I am not merely a “spectator” but an active “participant” who experiences and enjoys every facet of wildlife in full! I like it!
Ido realize that I am there to kill a wild animal, and I can easily be killed as well! (I have been bitten by a snake before).
Theory and practice comes together, and that is very rewarding!

Tracking wild animals in unknown, challenging, and dangerous terrain is exhilarating! Stalking right up and close to wild animals without them being aware of my presence, is exciting! It is adventurous and I enjoy the thrill of the chase!

I have a passion for hunting weapons. I load my own ammunition and know my weapons very well. They are reliable and accurate, and it pleases me to deliver a quick and humane kill. I have prepared myself, physically and emotionally, for this act, and I am very grateful for this privilege and blessing.

Back at the hunting camp, I enjoy spending quality time with family and good friends next to a bushveld campfire.
At home, and whilst enjoying my biltong and potjie, I am very pleased to know that my hunting process not only filled my freezer, but also added value to wildlife as well as the lives of other people!

I have a natural affinity for the hunt; call it a talent if you want. Hunting comes naturally to me, it is part of me; this is who I am and I am proud of it!

Follow the full debate at commentsHunting is nothing to be ashamed of
[ Back ]
Comments:
Posted by Gerhard Coreejes on 09 December 2013 at 17:52
Honorable Hunters,

Pieter and I decided to conclude our debate on a positive note, and list possible elements we can agree on as well as elements we continue to disagree with.

To get the full story, go to Jagsake/Hunting: Hunting is nothing to be ashamed of.

Please find below our closing comments.

Conclusion from Pieter Spire:

Gerhard,

In conclusion:

1. Hunting has the ability to desensitise the young by switching off emotional centres in the brain. If you want to hunt, fine, but think twice before making your children as cold and hard as yours truly. Allow them to be children for as long as they want to be. If they don’t want to hunt, don’t FORCE them to hunt.
2. Trophy hunting is only reserved for those who are immensely rich and connected;
3. When comparing the National Rifle Association (NRA) with Animal Rights Activists (ARA), NRA is worse by far and the NRA victimises ARA as they are politically connected and extremely wealthy individuals;
4. Gun control=less gun deaths by States in the USA.
5. Biltong hunting is acceptable, since all the meat is utilised. Since when do trophy hunters/locals eat lion?

Spires

Conclusion from Gerhard Coreejes:

Pieter,

I appreciate your response in concluding our debate on a positive note.

Just to reiterate, our PROFOUNDLY different and deeply rooted value systems, gives us an entirely different outlook on life and will determine how we will live!

I briefly list my personal and perceived elements of agreement and disagreement as follows:

What I agree with:
1. Canned Lion shooting/hunting is unethical.
2. Indiscriminate hunting did take place in the colonial era.
3. Trophy hunting the Big 5 is mostly afforded to the affluent hunters.
4. Everybody has a responsibility towards Wildlife Conservation.
5. We all have the right to association and religious practice of our choice.

What you disagree with:
1. Hunting does add value to Wildlife and People through the principle of sustainable utilization.
2. Hunting cannot be equated with violence and does not desensitise people, but rather build positive qualities.
3. Hunters are not unemotional egotists with a sense of superiority.
4. Animal rights activists practice a distorted ideology.
5. Hunters follow a code of ethical conduct, and have nothing to be ashamed off.

As you are a confirmed atheist, I can only wish you a prosperous and wonderful new year!

I am a hunter, and proud of it!

Strength and Honor!
Posted by hans poot on 05 December 2013 at 14:16
I am the one who has been stigmatised as "living in a dream's world" because, and I repeat, I am of the opinion that one never convinces anybody of anything if he doesn't want to be convinced...! I hate trophy hunters...
I was a hunter (now 75y old) for I liked to be in the natural environment and see the animals busy with their things. I have always only killed animals in order to make room for younger ones to access the herd OR to kill female animals because -apart from their meat to be better- there is an over-provision of them in order to pro-create in a sustainable way.
Posted by Charl on 04 December 2013 at 10:45
Gerhard - "give that man a bells!!!!!"
Posted by Wild on 04 December 2013 at 09:45
Louis Steyn se vrou wen hierdie debat. Punt.
Posted by Guillaume on 04 December 2013 at 08:46
I like hunting because we use every bit of what I shoot and it is an activity I enjoy doing with my son and dad. I ALWAYS honour the animals I kill with a fews seconds of silence next to it. What I do not like about hunting is when you hear stories of hunting trips in Africa to just go shoot something that is not on your list already with no intention to use the meat apart from a piece of fillet here and there. I once listen to the story of a well known former Springbok rugby player at a function of a well known Paarl school - how they hunted hippo and other animals just because "I have never shot one before". The worst part is that he in detail explained the stench of rotting meat as it could not be transported to local communities. It made me sick to the stomach.
Posted by L.Steyn on 04 December 2013 at 07:51
The best argument that I have ever heard in defence of hunting comes from my wife who although she is a real "bambi hugger" is not a vegatarian. She refuses however to eat any meat that has not been hunted, stating quite correctly that the practice of herding panicked animals into a commercail slaughterhouse is in her view inhumane and digusting. She has visited many abbatoirs and suggests that non-hunters who still eat meat should see the terror and loose bowels of the animals which, with the scent of blood in their nostrils, wait their turn to be killed. She eats ONLY venison claiming quite correctly that an anial who has lived free and dies quickly without the knowledge of its impending death is the only decent way of not becoming a vegatarian! So for the highly critical non-hunters, when they eat their bacon in the mornings, I suggest they should be reminded of the teror of the doemstic pig (a highly intelligent animal) which waits for its turn and knows with terrifying certainty what fate awaits it.
PS We make our own bacon ourselves from cleanly hunted wild european boar, dry cured and smoked. I will only debate the practice of hunting with a vegatarian whose choice not to eat meat I respect. For the rest of you your hypocricy of letting your chldren eat hamburgers while you loftily condemn hunting is reaaly beyond the pale. If you dont have the courage to kill it yuo shouldnt be allowed ot eat it.
Louis Steyn.
Posted by Izak on 04 December 2013 at 07:48
Mooi so Gerhard. Ek staan bankvas saam jou.
Posted by kaspaas on 04 December 2013 at 07:19
Well explained Gerhard
Posted by Banie on 03 December 2013 at 21:44
Vegeterian is an old African word for bad hunter
Posted by Louw on 03 December 2013 at 21:27
Two well written thoughts.
Pieter - as pertaining to your comment on "harvesting" being the wrong terminology. I do agree that this term has traditionally been used to describe the harvesting of crops, we now use this term when killing wild animals, normally for meat production where the aim is to kill the animal in a manner that causes the least stress (as this will have a negative effect on meat quality)- fair chase is not the driver here as it is in hunting. The term cropping has also been used. The difference between harvesting and culling is that in the latter, all animals are removed whilst in harvesting/cropping the animals removed are selected. The criteria for the selection will of course differ between each activity.