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  1. #1
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    I don't know how manyu of you have viewed the shooter's clinic videos of the EOTAC team at http://www.eotac.com/?p=5&section=vi...=proam&video=3

    Does deliberately firing extra shots in order to shoot slide back to enable an emergency reload not constitute FTDR, also leaving the static???

    Also what's with the holsters with the offsets away from the body? I thought that was only allowed for the girls?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    How do you prove the intention of the shooter? - dumping rounds justifies a FTDR but shooting more shots on a target is not necessarily dumping. The SO will have to look at what the shooter is doing - aiming and shooting at the target and landing shots does not justify a FTDR imo. Remember also that shooting more shots on the target is eating time. Shooting several un-aimed shots down range on the other hand is a different story.

    The "static" - listen carefully - at around 6min20sec into the clip - he says something like "shoot the steel, leave the static, shoot the up-down, shoot ..., and then shoot the static."

    I do not think he propagated not engaging the static - when you shoot the steel it activated the up-downs - he says if you are worried about time to hit the up-downs then leave the static which is next to the steel and then come back to it later.

    I did not pic up the "off-set" holsters.

  3. #3
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba
    How do you prove the intention of the shooter?
    Because Rob (at some stage or another) specifically advises to do this in order to be able to shoot slide back and get the reload in confused0083
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  4. #4
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khumba
    Remember also that shooting more shots on the target is eating time.
    Ah! OK, makes perfect sense to me. However... I was 'warned' the other day that the SOs are wise to 'you IPSC shooters that round-count' and put an extra round on target in order to force a reload before moving. I argued that it just worked out that way (lucky me) and was told that 'the SOs know all the tricks' . Here Rob specifically advises to do this. Is this not gamesmanship/FTDR?

    Who draws the line?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Being an active IDPA SO for the last 3-4 years (memory fading), I have yet to see a penalty based on round dumping. Unless, as Khumba said, you just fire blindly down range to empty a mag, its impossible to prove. You can round count as much as you want, as long as the hits are aimed.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bla
    Unless, as Khumba said, you just fire blindly down range to empty a mag, its impossible to prove.
    This, in my view, is round dumping. Filling in is not.

    On the holster issue. I don't think the rig used in the clip is legal as the breechface appears to be held lower than the centre line of the belt.

    They aren't using concealment either.
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  7. #7
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bla
    Being an active IDPA SO for the last 3-4 years (memory fading), I have yet to see a penalty based on round dumping. Unless, as Khumba said, you just fire blindly down range to empty a mag, its impossible to prove. You can round count as much as you want, as long as the hits are aimed.
    Yeah! That's kinda like I thought it should be. It disturbed the hell out of me when the SO 'warned' me though.

    I'm kinda new to the IDPA game, so what the hell do I know?

    OK, settled! tup

    Onto the holster debate.

    I was under the impression that holsters must hold the piece close to your body (except for females who are allowed a little... um... latitude). If you look at Tom's holster (on 30 seconds, and again later) you see that the holster holds the piece away from his body.
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  8. #8
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP
    I don't think the rig used in the clip is legal as the breechface appears to be held lower than the centre line of the belt.
    Yeah, I noted that also.

    As to the lack of concealment, I suppose they are just demo'ing so the lack of a jacket could be construed to be in the interests of better being able to show what is happening.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Paul, I think one or two of us might just be scared of the new competition! Feel free to challenge any/every decision made on the range. We do get it wrong every now and again. Can't speak for other people, but I have no problem being corrected.


  10. #10
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hmm... gamesmanship? Holsters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bla
    Feel free to challenge any/every decision made on the range.
    Ah... have no fear. I have a big mouth and I'm not afraid to voice my thoughts... in fact Adrian spends half his time on the range trying to get me to shut up! hpy71

    But, yes, it's only by asking that we all test the rules. I certainly want to be told when I am on the verge of stepping outside the box also.
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