Endorsements in general

**Skaaphaas** · 31-10-2012, 13:43

Following this thread: http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/showthread.php?27920-SADPA-and-IPSC-endorsement-of-what-exactly I had a little think and a plan in the back of my head for some time now, and the two sort of came together.

I emailed SADPA with my question and am awaiting a reply, but I thought I'd throw it out here just for general discussion and opinion.

I want to start shooting in SSR and perhaps BUG with a .38Spl revolver that I acquired. I don't load for .38 and training ammo gets expensive if you buy for the pistol and the rollie to take to the range. So I got to thinking of a .22 Revolver as training tool.

Ammo is plenty cheap enough for a proper day at the range, and the long double action trigger will make for some proper practice that should also help when shooting the 9mm. Most hunters motivate a .22 as a cheap trainer, and I think the benefits of training with a .22 handgun are actually more when compared to a rifle, trigger control being such a major part of shooting accurately.

Now, taking into account that I will have to licence it under S16, and the apparent new check-list that CFR has for applications under that section that includes an endorsement, how would I go about doing it? I'm not looking at options like joining Pinshooting etc, looking at it purely from an IDPA (and perhaps IPSC) viewpoint.

The question is, should IDPA (or any other organisation) supply an endorsement for a firearm that does not fall into its minimum-calibre requirements, etc?

If a firearm is bought purely as a training tool, by a dedicated sport shooter, to train for that chosen sport in which he got his dedicated status, surely that falls squarely within the ambit and object of section 16. So should the organisation endorse it?

From the organisation's side it is obviously a bit of an issue. If they endorse firearms outside the ambit of the sport, where do they draw the line? How do you prevent abuse of the system and not lose credibility (and perhaps ultimately accreditation) at the SAPS? I think such a request for an endorsement must be properly motivated, but then that ups the man-hours to be spent by the association to consider these motivations merely to keep their members happy.

From the applicant's side the benefits are obvious, but it would be counter productive to try and motivate something for endorsement which does not really qualify to be endorsed.

Obviously the major problem is not with either the shooter or the , but with CFR coming up with arbitrary requirements, but that's a horse of a different colour.

What are your thoughts?

**JS4** · 31-10-2012, 14:08

Motivate it for euthanasia of off-colour horses.

**Black-ops** · 31-10-2012, 14:09

You will have to join different organizations to be able to get endorsements for certain types of firearms. I personally think if an organization did endorse everything it would be one hell of an organization. More people would join one organization instead of having to pay various membership fees and yearly up-keep shoots at different organizations just my 2c. Less membership fees = more money to spend on ammo.

**prepare2win** · 31-10-2012, 14:57

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but I feel its relevant- something that has been bothering me is who decides exactly what is required for a successful license approval? I mean, what is written as law? we have all heard about 60 pages apps with tons of supporting documentation. Recently someone said the DFO told them SAPS crime stats were insufficient and they needed "newspaper clippings" and wouldn't accept their S13 application.

what part of the act says we need an endorsement from an accredited association for a S16 license to be granted? are we doing others a disservice if we set a benchmark of 60 page applications? what weight to these checklists have?

**wrm** · 31-10-2012, 15:04

Originally Posted by prepare2win

exactly what is required for a successful license approval?

Question has been posed to CFR many many times. CFR doesn't want to say, because they figure some enterprising individual will compile a checklist, and then they will have to approve all applications.

Which they don't want to do.

So we have an arms race where "more than the next fellow" is deemed sufficient motivation.

**Black-ops** · 31-10-2012, 15:14

Originally Posted by prepare2win

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but I feel its relevant- something that has been bothering me is who decides exactly what is required for a successful license approval? I mean, what is written as law? we have all heard about 60 pages apps with tons of supporting documentation. Recently someone said the DFO told them SAPS crime stats were insufficient and they needed "newspaper clippings" and wouldn't accept their S13 application.

what part of the act says we need an endorsement from an accredited association for a S16 license to be granted? are we doing others a disservice if we set a benchmark of 60 page applications? what weight to these checklists have?

Ding ding ding we have a winner P2W hits the nail on the head.

**Skaaphaas** · 31-10-2012, 15:27

P2W, that would be the horse of a different colour...

**Lian** · 31-10-2012, 15:50

Originally Posted by prepare2win

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but I feel its relevant- something that has been bothering me is who decides exactly what is required for a successful license approval? I mean, what is written as law? we have all heard about 60 pages apps with tons of supporting documentation. Recently someone said the DFO told them SAPS crime stats were insufficient and they needed "newspaper clippings" and wouldn't accept their S13 application.

what part of the act says we need an endorsement from an accredited association for a S16 license to be granted? are we doing others a disservice if we set a benchmark of 60 page applications? what weight to these checklists have?

i'm under the impression you only need to provide:
SADPA membership;
SADPA endorsement;
SADPA DSS status.

technically that's all you should need... but doesnt stop me from spamming all the other information with it ;)

**Doomslayer** · 31-10-2012, 15:54

Am thinking of getting a 5.56 mm SLR for shits and giggles as well as maybe SD @ home?

**prepare2win** · 31-10-2012, 15:58

do you think it would be possible to get a license for a semi approved with sadpa membership and endorsment, and NSA dss while working towards sadpa dss? since sadpa dss can take a long time to build up points for and NSA is much quicker. would sadpa endorse in the mean time?