Drawing / Pointing a firearm scenario

**Wasabi-RSM** · 30-06-2014, 09:53

My apologies if this has been asked before, but I have a scenario, and would like to know if drawing and possibly even pointing a firearm would be "allowed" in this specific instance.

So, what happened was, i got into a "quarrel" with a taxi, after which he drove past me, and stopped in front of me, effectively attempting to "pull me over". I stopped about a car length behind him, and did not think it safe to try and pass him on either side, should he be armed and decide to shoot at me. When he stopped, I saw the driver's door opening, and out he got, started walking towards my vehicle. (Now might be the time to add, he was a rather large individual...)

At this point, I - don't know how I was able to do it so smoothly, but thank goodness - loosened my seat belt, slightly lifted my jacked and drew my firearm in one very fluid motion. I did not point it at him, but I kept it on my lap (finger out of the trigger guard), and should he have reached for any weapon himself, I would have been very much ready to defend myself accordingly. I don't know if he saw me drawing it, since I kept it low, and to the best of my ability - out of sight, but he stopped, shouted something, and got back in his taxi and eventually drove off. (I must say, I was very relieved at that point...)

Now my scenario is, was me drawing my weapon and not pointing it at him "justifiable"? (Or should I have waited and assessed the situation even more before making that decision?) And would I have been correct in my choice that should he have reached for something, I would have displayed it?

Thanks...

**Waheeb** · 30-06-2014, 10:37

I'm not sure what is the absolute correct thing to do in a situation like that.
If I were in that position, I would only draw the firearm if I felt that there was an immediate and direct threat on me and that there was no alternative. That's my interpretation of the law.
This 'alternative' part is the one that is a very grey area in my understanding. Technically, there could always be an alternative. In your case, you could have driven past, turned around, or just drive somewhere else. I completely understand that you assessed the scenario and felt that it was unsafe to do so. But, you catch my drift.

Look, you've avoided a very dangerous situation and you have no regrets. So, well done I say.

**bronxlive** · 30-06-2014, 10:45

I was in a similar type of situation where an individual approached my car(angry, swearing and shouting and trying to get hold of my phone because I was filming people(long story) picking up cold drinks that fell of a truck). I made the decision that as soon as he touches my car door, I will draw and point him and if he continues to open the door I will fire.
He reached my door and I drew my FA. He noticed an bolted.

**prepare2win** · 30-06-2014, 10:45

I think someone cutting you off and blocking you in, then getting out their car and approaching yours while shouting is enough for one to reasonably believe that there is potential for a violent attack to occur. The law says that in order for one to use force in self defense, an unlawful attack must be underway or imminent, and that's to actually shoot the threat. Moving the firearm into a ready position, while not actually even pointing it yet, I am sure is reasonable.

I'd suggest immediately going to SAPS to report the incident (number plate would be a bonus) as the first to report the incident is seen as the complainant rather than as the defendant of a charge. Just in case Mr taxi driver says you threatened him and pointed your FA at him.

**Ds J** · 30-06-2014, 11:01

You did not point your firearm at him, you prepared to meet a possible attack. I do not see anything illegal in that. He could have seen your moves and deducted that you are armed, which caused him to change his plans.

It has been said many times that we hope never to get into a shooting; your being armed and mentally prepared probably saved the day.

**Tetelestai** · 30-06-2014, 11:08

Do not get into "quarrels" with taxis. You will not change their habits, you will not get whatever thing you wanted (space in the traffic or whatever) back. The 5 seconds it takes you longer to get to your destination because you didn't fight for a spot isn't worth it.

No, I do not condone what most taxi drivers do but if you were part of escalating/creating a situation, that becomes part of the equation once the police start asking questions. I used to get angry at the taxis but since starting to EDC, I just breathe and continue on my merry way. So much for the GFSA drivel of me looking to shoot someone.

**Erick** · 30-06-2014, 11:20

There are obviously no clear set of rules, and no two scenarios are the same, but this what I decided to do if something similar happens. The shootings on malibongwe drive made me realise people will shoot out of anger, so if I am forced off the road or to stop by another vehicle I will, as soon as I stop, get out of my car, "hide" behind my car door, draw my fa and let the aggressor know that I am armed. The thing that I am most scared of in this scenario is what is behind my target should it escalate to that point.
As to what you did, I can see absolutely nothing wrong, the reason that I would get out off the car is that if something should happen I have the ability to move, but well done on avoiding a potentially dangerous situation.

**Gunservant** · 30-06-2014, 11:23

Originally Posted by Tetelestai

Do not get into "quarrels" with taxis. You will not change their habits, you will not get whatever thing you wanted (space in the traffic or whatever) back. The 5 seconds it takes you longer to get to your destination because you didn't fight for a spot isn't worth it.

No, I do not condone what most taxi drivers do but if you were part of escalating/creating a situation, that becomes part of the equation once the police start asking questions. I used to get angry at the taxis but since starting to EDC, I just breathe and continue on my merry way. So much for the GFSA drivel of me looking to shoot someone.

Exactly. It is not worth getting into fights with peasants. Let it go, they will transgress again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after, ad infinitum. That's the way the cookie crumbles. I try to avoid situations where people give me legitimate reasons for shooting them.

**Sean Murphy** · 30-06-2014, 11:24

To me I think what you did was 100% correct. If you suspect an attack you should do everything you can to get ready for it. Keeping your FA out of sight was correct as you cannot be accused of escalating the situation or of being the aggressor. Obviously if he draws a FA or takes any other action that constitutes a physical attack on you then you would be justified in displaying and shooting. Do not be fooled into thinking that just displaying is going to make all BG's run away. It may just escalate the situation where he immediately fires at you.

Sean.

**prepare2win** · 30-06-2014, 11:25

Erick, good to have a plan but I'd suggest moving right behind your vehicle for 2 reasons- 1 is car doors offer little protection from bullets. 2 is that some say that there is a higher likelihood of a confrontation going physical when people get out the car, just by the nature of the fact that now both parties can 'get at each other', so mitigate this by using the whole vehicle as a barrier, and circle it if needs be to keep the car between you and the aggressor. Later, if it comes to it, witnesses will be able to say they saw you retreat to the back of your car and circle away from the attacker who kept coming after you