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  1. #21

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    WZ legislation and tradition aside , do you think that collecting AR's is less worthy than collecting double rifles ? Or that it should be something that one shouldn't be able to collect out the gate ?
    Big T, I do not think that it is less worthy. Many AR's have significant heritage value. I refer for example to an original AR-10 that I have (together with the original bayonet) as well as an original M-16 A1 that I have which was used in both Vietnam and Rhodesia (as far as I know the only original M-16 A1 in the country but I could be mistaken). And to be clear, heritage value is only one element of collectability – there are various other factors which could equally render the firearms in question collectable.


    But that is not the issue. The issue is that the regulations to the FCA prescribe an entire model in relation to the collecting of semiautomatic and fully automatic items and requires that the constitution of each association comply with those regulations.


    I invite people to specifically go and read regulations 5 and 15 to the Firearms Control Act. You will see that the various categories of members are prescribed by law as well as the fact that by operation of law you cannot start collecting semiautomatics from day one. Go see especially regulations 5 (d) – (f) but preferably read the whole of regulations 5 and 15.


    If you look at regulation 15, you will see that a significantly greater degree of justification is required in order to collect stuff that is less than 50 years old (any proposed collection of something that has been manufactured less than 50 years ago is subject to significantly greater scrutiny).


    Then we have somebody walk in the door who tells us that he is only interested in collecting current production or modern assault rifles. He has no track record as a collector, has established no credentials whatever as a collector, clearly has not bothered to read the regulations regulating collectors under the FCA and would have us somehow ignore the law in order to accommodate his "special requirements". What do people think the reaction is going to be?

    While it is not entirely analogous, it is perhaps not entirely unlike someone walking in the door of IDPA and demanding that he be given DSS immediately upon membership application and moreover be recognised as an expert or a master. Well, no. Follow the rules and the system as others have done before you and prove yourself and your credentials. Is that really too much to ask?


    Collectors are strictly regulated and there is nothing we can do about it. The simple message is this: if you want to become a collector, you will have to follow the path that others have followed; if you're not prepared to do so please don't complain – take your problem somewhere else because there is nothing I or anybody else in the collectors world can do about it at this point in our history – and accusing collectors of being "an old boys club" is not going to change any of that.

    Edit: I see you said "legislation aside". In any event, let my explanation stand for the benefit of others.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    The legislation aside was a very important bit, I have a basic understanding of the legislation.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    The legislation aside was a very important bit, I have a basic understanding of the legislation.
    Understood. Amongst other things, collectability needs to be understood within the context of the activities of the collector concerned, his background and his theme as well as the existing components of his collection. In principle there is absolutely no reason why, outside of the legislative framework and the political environment (which does play a role, as I have explained elsewhere) ARs cannot be collectable. Of course they can, provided one considers the thing in context as a whole.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  4. #24

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    WZ - is it possible to list the 10 most popular collecting themes?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #25

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Thanks WZ for taking the time to set it out so clearly. There is a good reason that collectors associations have a degree of credibility. Everybody is welcomed but appreciate that we have all had to both serve our time and establish our bona fides.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    No problem. The thing about collectors and collecting is that it is rather more about the intellectual aspects – studying, the history and the understanding – than it is about the actual object. If you have a genuine interest in history and the history of firearms and how it all fits together, you may well suit the profile of a collector. But it's not for everybody. And it is most certainly not for the bloke who is looking for a quick and easy way to lay his hands on a few more guns.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    ...as well as an original M-16 A1 that I have which was used in both Vietnam and Rhodesia (as far as I know the only original M-16 A1 in the country but I could be mistaken). .
    Would that be a Colt Armalite AR 15 Mod 01? Don't feel alone, we should compare ours. Mine is below the 14000 serial number pre forward assist...

  8. #28

    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Nice rifle you have there!

    No, this item is actually marked/engraved "Property of US Govt", "M16A1" and "Cal 5.56 mm". It's also had the living daylights shot out of it – it has been heavily used. The outside doesn't look too bad – a fair bit of carry wear – but the bore has definitely seen better days. It's obviously been used in anger – a lot. It has the forward assist so is a later rifle than yours. This one came out of the Zimbabwean government armoury and is ex-Rhodesian. Can only have got there with one of the crippled Eagles, or so I imagine.

    Post us some pictures, if you don't mind.
    Last edited by Wanderin' Zero; 31-07-2016 at 19:21.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit: occidentis telum est.

    Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD)

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Thanks for the write-up, WZ. My wife tells me I have enough guns now. No more collecting! I let her know that there is one more app with CFR........

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Is becoming a Collector for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderin' Zero View Post
    Nice rifle you have there!
    ... This one came out of the Zimbabwean government armoury and is ex-Rhodesian. Can only have got there with one of the crippled Eagles, or so I imagine....
    AFAIK the Rhodesian SAS used the M16. They must have had quite a few of them.

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