EDC blade choice factors

[47]

Would you guys say there are / should be a difference between the type of blade and methods used by someone that also regularly EDC a handgun vs. someone that for some reason is limited to only a blade most of the time?

IMO, if I’m limited to a blade most of the time, I would definitely carry as large a fixed blade that I can possible carry comfortably and access quickly.
I don’t have much experience with Reverse Edge Methods, but in this case I personally would most probably rather opt for regular edge forward hammer or sabre grip to extend range as far as possible.


On the other hand, if I do carry an EDC handgun, the position of my blade should first and foremost not interfere with my primary, i.e. the handgun and spare mags.
In this case, I personally would still choose a fixed blade, but I would say you can get away with a smaller blade and maybe even a folder since you already carry a longer range primary weapon, i.e. the handgun.
And since you already carry a longer range weapon, the method in which the blade is used, will matter less I think, as it will most probably only come into play when you ran out of ammo or experience a stoppage that cannot be cleared in time, cannot access your primary for some reason or to prevent a disarm of your primary. Range is also less important maybe in this case, so a method like Pikal (Reverse Edge) can work well since it has other benefits too.



Part two of the discussion is in what type of situations are you most likely to find yourself into and against what type of weapons are you justified in using a blade to defend yourself? Most people view a blade as a lethal weapon, and as such more or less the same type of situations you are justified in using your SD FA. With the main difference of course that you are limited to a Close Quarters response. If you carry both a blade and FA, your response and methods will likely differ from someone that only EDC a blade.



Part three of this discussion is what constitutes a blade’s “Stopping power”?

The way I see it, it must be able to render the attacker/s unwilling or unable to continue with their assault - since most of us are not serial killers or bound by duty (i.e. LEO’s, Spec Ops etc.), all we want to do is to stop the assault ASAP to go home safely.

If we look at the article posted in this thread on projectile wounding: http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/show...Caliber-Choice the first way to incapacitate is by massive blood loss, and the second way is by shutting down the CNS.

If we talk about blades then, I assume the following:

Most people agree that stabbing causes more damage than cutting. However, blood loss (from either stabbing or cutting, even if it proves fatal in the end) may possibly take too long to stop someone before they hurt you badly. For instance, I have read of many cases where people did not even realized they were stabbed (most thought they were only being punched) and only realized it afterwards when they saw the blood and wounds. In primary point driven methods would the effect of multiple stabs to the body be different than that of multiple shots? Would you be able to stop someone in time?

If we talk about shutting down the CNS, I’m not quite sure if it can be achieved by stabbing (or cutting) in the same way as bullet placement either (see article referred to above), possibly not even with something like a machete, katana, kukri or bowie, and much less with a 3 inch blade I would think. Beheading aside of course.

With blades, if we talk about making an attacker unwilling to pursue the attack, we can possibly make him unwilling by “drawing blood” so to speak or creating pain, cutting or stabbing anything that sticks out, hurting him in the process so that he decides to rather try another victim. Might not work well if he is on a substance.

You also have the option of rendering an attacker temporarily unable to pursue the attack, firstly by what is called biomechanical cutting – i.e. targeting the hand / forearm flexors and extensors / biceps and triceps / quads or hams etc. The classic “defanging the snake” tactic where you cause him to lose his weapon, render a limb inoperable or disrupt his mobility to allow you the opportunity to escape. Not sure how many and deep cuts are required to achieve this.

Other ways of making him unable, are to disrupt vision (targeting eyes / forehead), disrupting breathing or disrupting consciousness by a hard blow.

If successful, these disabling tactics seems to have a more immediate effect to allow for escape than some of the other methods.



The factors that are most likely to occur, will most probably affect your choice of blade and method used.

I stand to be corrected on these assumptions. Would love to hear what the knife experts on the forum has to say!

[Desert Rat]

IMHO...and I also happy to be corrected...
Fixed blade over folder - purely because of strength of construction
Minimum blade length 3.5 inches to be able to reach vitals (if the BG is not too fat!)
Tanto type points for best stab penetration , actually tantos work well for slashing as well because of the "point" formed from the main blade to the tip
Anti slip handle material....in case of blood on handle
Shaving sharp blade

In the confrontation: Stabbing would/should only occur when grappling...I believe general consensus is to keep away from attacker if possible and slash...staying on his weak side (backhand side) slash at his knife hand/wrist/forearm and face keep circling to his weak side. Psychologically...cuts wounds and lots of blood tends to get the BG thinking about his own welfare! Quite and interesting set of DVDs is Cold Steels Knife fighting techniques....there they discuss types of knives, blades, styles, defense, attack etc...they also have training regimes to follow.

[47]

Something I have been thinking about a lot recently is the effective stopping power of a blade in certain circumstances. Like I posted before, I have heard / read of too many cases where people have not even realized they have been stabbed till after the event. Even fatal wounds sometimes seem to not stop the threat immediately. Someone like Craig Douglas says that a blade does not inflict the blunt trauma sometimes needed to stop a threat sooner. Kelly MCCann also told me that, even though he loves a blade, he would choose a baton to EDC first.

Many people seem to carry blades only because it is cool. No, I don’t want to get cut / stabbed. Yes, you might cut or stab someone in a self defense situation, and the sight of blood / pain might be enough to discourage him, but if not how long will it take to physically stop the threat?

I don’t know. Something to think about.

[Ds J]

AFAIK, effective stopping power with a blade works in the same way as a gun - hit the central system and down he goes. The trick is that one is usually also in range to get stabbed.

[Mr_Medic]

If you plan on stabbing an attacker why not just use your SD FA. Ok sarcasm aside, in a situation where access to a blade is more plausible/possible than a FA not all attackers are discouraged by random slashes. As said above by Ds J hit them where it hurts, pop a lung, sever a major vessel or create a abdominal evisceration. A cut to the forearm is not always going to hack it (see what I did there) also remeber that the neck is a extreme weak spot which is largely unprotected and often exposed during an up close confrontation, a solid hit to the neck is often enough to end most violent encounters.

Remember sometimes an attacker may have used certain drugs that reduce his/her ability to feel pain or fear. Thus you need to incapacitate them by causing a systemic failure. The fastest way to achieve this is massive blood loss resulting in a drop in cerebral perfusion pressure or the compromise of a nerve cluster, such as a severe blow or penetrating wound to the spinal column.
It is much like shooting, make your hits count.

[Ds J]

I am pretty sure that a knife (getting hurt by one) has a certain enhanced psychological effect. That is also one of the reasons why anti's argue that guns kill people when they actually mean that a gun is not so close-up and personal as literally driving a cold piece of steel into someone else. If someone here can share a little experience it would be nice. My greatgrandfather used to say that it is possible to kill someone with a blade of 2cm length; he never explained how but the people (especially the farm hands) were deathly afraid of him. The family said that was his experience from the Anglo-Boer War.

[Zoo Keeper]

if you're that close, learning a bit of traditional Ju Jitsu will be worth more than a blade.

[Toxxyc]

if you're that close, learning a bit of traditional Ju Jitsu will be worth more than a blade.

So then if you're far enough to need a gun running in a zig-zag pattern will be worth more than a gun? BS. You want to fight back, not just keep dodging and deflecting the whole time. Carry a knife - you might just need it and then you'll be sorry you don't have it. Just like your gun.

[Bushboy]

Somebody far more experienced than myself said that slashing was defensive and stabbing was aggressive. Once the fight is on, be aggressive. Multiple stabs to the throat and face are the key.

I usually carry 2 blades, a medium folder on my strong side which is primarily a tool. open boxes, cut packages etc. but could certainly be used as a last ditch weapon. My primary weapon is my pistol which is carried right side and on my left side I carry 2 spare mags. My fixed blade is a 5 inch Tanto which struggles for space on my belt. Id like to carry it @ 11 OClock, but the length of blade and handle make this tricky and hamper concealment. This gives me easy access for both hands. I decided to carry at 6 O Clock, laterally(almost) IWB with a belt clip that swivels. It is very comfortable and conceals very well. It is easily accessible with my left hand and with a small extra effort (thanks to the swivel)my right hand as well. The primary purpose of this blade is as a gun retention blade. If I cant access my pistol or Im fighting for it with my right hand, I want to bring that 5 inch blade into play wherever I can stick it in deepest. rinse and repeat. cut or stab anything in the way like sewing machine/ piston.

[Ds J]

Whether you use a blade, a gun, a screwdriver, a ruler, a rolled magazine or ball point pen a la Jason Bourne is irrelevant - the primary weapon is the brain; the rest are tools to do what the brain is commanding.

Most homicides are aparently still being commited with blunt objects, second most sharp object and only in the third place guns - got that from a forensics friend. This proves that the will to survive in a SD situation is probably the single most important virtue. The tool of choice is secondary. A gun and a knife are just particularly effective for SD purposes. When choosing a knife I would try to get a knife which does not limit me to a single fighting style.