Which Modern Gas Piston Rifle?

**Speed_Freak** · 27-12-2009, 19:06

Out of interests sakes I am looking around at Semi Auto Carbines\Rifles and the new thing seems to be Gas Piston systems.

I know the gas piston rifles are supposed to be more reliable and I have gone through plenty of the forum topics. One thing seems to be common place, environment. Assuming the rifle is used for sport shooting and then cleaned afterwards, would there really be an advantage over say a CAR15 (other than sight radius and barrel length)

Of the new rifles I have looked at there are three that peak my interest:
HK MR223 (or MR556, depends where the rifle is sourced from)
FN SCAR 16S (223) or 17S (308Win)
Sig 556

Sadly all of them are a swift kick in the wallet when it comes to price, with the Sig being around $1700, the FN around $2600 and the HK being of unknown price at the moment. The HK 416 which is selling for over $3000 just for the upper gives one an indication of the possible price of the MR223\MR556.

Has anyone played with any of them, have any comments regarding them?
What other interesting rifles are out there in this category?
Anyone played with a HK SL8?

**USP** · 27-12-2009, 21:23

The MR223 will go around R35000 retail.

USP

**HK416** · 28-12-2009, 08:59

Ruger 556 , your best bet , value for money, good back up service.

**Speed_Freak** · 28-12-2009, 21:41

Now I ask you, as good as the HK MR223 will be, is it worth the possible R35 000? Will they come with the 30 Round mags or will they use pinned 5 round mags like the SL8 had to?

HK416, another contender to the Gas Piston rifle crown :)
At $2000 dollars for the 30 Round Magazine version makes it approximately $700 cheaper than the SCAR 16S, and around the same price as the Sig556 Patrol Rifle.

**ikor** · 29-12-2009, 07:15

I remain unconvinced that any of the new 'short stroke' piston designs are really much, if any, better than the tried and true DI system on the AR / M4. In return for more cost and weight, you get a proprietary system (there is no standard piston design nor are there standard parts available for any out there yet except perhaps the H&K) that does not seem to run better nor longer nor more reliably than the DI system...even with a suppressor. For the cost of a single H&K (assuming you could actually buy one) you could buy three or maybe even four new Colt #6920 M4 carbines with some hard shopping. The 'new thing' indeed, but 'better'? I seriously doubt it. (and I just turned down a NIB SIG 556 Classic at the gun show the weekend before I left for SA at a price of $1500)

The SIG is not 'new' (except in the US sold 556 version) and uses the well proven 'long stroke' piston like the R4 / LM / AK. A nice rifle but muchly overpriced in the US version IMO. The SCAR looks to be a decent rifle but it is very new in the system and will not be issued to all US troops. Only time will tell the story on this one but testing looks good. I have not shot one but the one example I looked at felt 'flimsy' to me, as if the polymer parts were cheaply made. I have seen where several guys who bought new civi ones now say they would not spend the money again.

If faced with having to buy a piston rifle today in the states it would be the Ruger I think...less expense, the closest thing yet to 'standardized' parts (with the exception of H&K which currently are made of 'unobtanium') and good service, while still able to use most AR magazines, accessories / mounts, etc.

DS · 29-12-2009, 09:33

Ikor recommends the Ruger as the piston platform rifle for a US based buyer - if you are in SA finding the rifles you mention will be problematic.

A good quality AR properly set up and lubed can run several hundred rounds without having to clean it. I posted a link to an article by Pat Rogers about this sissue.

I have read reports on forums where information is slowly surfacing with High rounds counts being attained in rifles that short piston conversions on AR rifles are heavy on the bolt carriers and even maybe on the rest of the recieved system. The AR receiver was designed as a lightweight unit because the DI gas system design does not require an over engineered receiver (upper and lower),

Last time I checked Rosenthalls said that HK will not allow SA rifles to be available in SA for commercial sales.

The Sig 552/3 is a great rifle but very expensive and last I checked Rescomp guessed it would retail for around 35 - 40K.

For that type of money I would rather buy a new LM 5 or 6 (if I wanted a piston platform rifle), and also buy lots of mags and lots of ammo. I do not think the SIG is going to give anything more than the LM except a huge CDI factor. Parts and mags for the SIG will also be pronblematic imo.

**USP** · 29-12-2009, 21:38

Rosenthals is incorrect.
Worth it or not, time will tell. At the top level of most of the modern rifles nowdays, a lot goes purely into the "coolness" factor. Yeah, everyone claims to just want a reliable rifle, and yet when something scarce or impressive comes along, there is no shortage of ppl with cash ready to buy.
I'm pretty sure the R35K MR223's will fly when they get to SA.

USP

**Craig** · 30-12-2009, 02:09

Originally Posted by USP

Rosenthals is incorrect.
Worth it or not, time will tell. At the top level of most of the modern rifles nowdays, a lot goes purely into the "coolness" factor. Yeah, everyone claims to just want a reliable rifle, and yet when something scarce or impressive comes along, there is no shortage of ppl with cash ready to buy.
I'm pretty sure the R35K MR223's will fly when they get to SA.

USP

I think you right, people will always come up with cash for things they really want, regardless how necessary they may be.

Them arriving in SA is another matter, but never say never

LWRC and the HK get my vote in the piston AR's, but I really like the SCAR, followed by the XM8 which still looks a bit far fetched, and the ARX160.

**Craig** · 30-12-2009, 02:19

Originally Posted by Speed_Freak

Out of interests sakes I am looking around at Semi Auto Carbines\Rifles and the new thing seems to be Gas Piston systems.

I know the gas piston rifles are supposed to be more reliable and I have gone through plenty of the forum topics. One thing seems to be common place, environment. Assuming the rifle is used for sport shooting and then cleaned afterwards, would there really be an advantage over say a CAR15 (other than sight radius and barrel length)

Of the new rifles I have looked at there are three that peak my interest:
HK MR223 (or MR556, depends where the rifle is sourced from)
FN SCAR 16S (223) or 17S (308Win)
Sig 556

Sadly all of them are a swift kick in the wallet when it comes to price, with the Sig being around $1700, the FN around $2600 and the HK being of unknown price at the moment. The HK 416 which is selling for over $3000 just for the upper gives one an indication of the possible price of the MR223\MR556.

Has anyone played with any of them, have any comments regarding them?
What other interesting rifles are out there in this category?
Anyone played with a HK SL8?

I find comfort in the fact that the US Army, Marines and USAF all use DI type AR15 variants, that makes them good enough for me.

If I was buying a piston rifle, I'd buy one designed from the ground up, saying that, I'd like piston AR for the CDI factor, nothing more.

**Speed_Freak** · 30-12-2009, 14:06

Originally Posted by Craig

I find comfort in the fact that the US Army, Marines and USAF all use DI type AR15 variants, that makes them good enough for me.

If I was buying a piston rifle, I'd buy one designed from the ground up, saying that, I'd like piston AR for the CDI factor, nothing more.

Sadly we all know that the Americans are VERY patriotic and the DI rifles they use are built by the lowest bidder :)

Companies like Sig, HK, FN etc have had to change thier designs to fit in with the controls of the M4\M16. Simply cause thier demand for a replacement will not entertain a rifle with unique controls and as such different training for their soldiers.

I am fortunate enough to already have a CAR15 and will mod that one up to get it to where I want it.