What to look for in a Self Defence Pistol - by BigT

**Dickie** · 21-08-2013, 07:50

Originally Posted by DickMiller

If you are not going to spend at least $10,000 US on gear, ammo, and training, to include 3-4K US worth of hand to hand training, then it's most unlikely that you will acquire, much less maintain, top skill. Without that top skill, what you are counting upon is a bit of luck, in bluffing the guy without your having to "shoot him into the ground, with lots of good chest hits and powerful loads. normally, the latter is not needed, the "bluffing" works just fine. Which is good, cause only a very few thousand men on the face of the earth can manage the latter, and then it costs them many thousands of $ and year of troulbe, tryiong to remain out of prison, not lose their license, not have to move, not lose job or biz, not be sued (many times)etc.

So those who cannot afford to spend those amounts should rather just not bother carrying? WTF?

**ravingDIODE** · 21-08-2013, 07:57

Originally Posted by DickMiller

If you are not going to spend at least $10,000 US on gear, ammo, and training, to include 3-4K US worth of hand to hand training, then it's most unlikely that you will acquire, much less maintain, top skill. Without that top skill, what you are counting upon is a bit of luck, in bluffing the guy without your having to "shoot him into the ground, with lots of good chest hits and powerful loads. normally, the latter is not needed, the "bluffing" works just fine. Which is good, cause only a very few thousand men on the face of the earth can manage the latter, and then it costs them many thousands of $ and year of troulbe, tryiong to remain out of prison, not lose their license, not have to move, not lose job or biz, not be sued (many times)etc.

Wow. Just wow.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

**Paul** · 21-08-2013, 08:53

Guys, we are (I fear) in danger of giving Dick the wrong (albeit correct) impression of us...

He is writing out of a US paradigm, we are reading and responding out of the South African paradigm.

In Dick's world a gunfight typically consists of one or two attackers and 3 shots are fired. In our scenario armed home invaders arrive in a gang of five or more wearing body armour. Our shopping centre robberies will consist of gangs in excess of 15 bearing AK47s and include stopper groups and lookouts. Our cash it transit gangs will often be in excess of 25 strong with assault rifles and led by current or ex military or police members.

In Dick's world the prospect of a civilian getting into a gunfight with armed attackers is relatively rare. I personally know more than a dozen people who have survived multi-attacker armed robberies, myself included.

I think he has a vast knowledge of firearms and from his perspective a lot of what we are talking about must sound like Gecko45 to him.

**Gunservant** · 21-08-2013, 08:56

Originally Posted by Paul

Guys, we are (I fear) in danger of giving Dick the wrong (albeit correct) impression of us...

He is writing out of a US paradigm, we are reading and responding out of the South African paradigm.

In Dick's world a gunfight typically consists of one or two attackers and 3 shots are fired. In our scenario armed home invaders arrive in a gang of five or more wearing body armour. Our shopping centre robberies will consist of gangs in excess of 15 bearing AK47s and include stopper groups and lookouts. Our cash it transit gangs will often be in excess of 25 strong with assault rifles and led by current or ex military or police members.

In Dick's world the prospect of a civilian getting into a gunfight with armed attackers is relatively rare. I personally know more than a dozen people who have survived multi-attacker armed robberies, myself included.

I think he has a vast knowledge of firearms and from his perspective a lot of what we are talking about must sound like Gecko45 to him.

Good summary.

**ravingDIODE** · 21-08-2013, 08:59

Originally Posted by Paul

Guys, we are (I fear) in danger of giving Dick the wrong (albeit correct) impression of us...

He is writing out of a US paradigm, we are reading and responding out of the South African paradigm.

In Dick's world a gunfight typically consists of one or two attackers and 3 shots are fired. In our scenario armed home invaders arrive in a gang of five or more wearing body armour. Our shopping centre robberies will consist of gangs in excess of 15 bearing AK47s and include stopper groups and lookouts. Our cash it transit gangs will often be in excess of 25 strong with assault rifles and led by current or ex military or police members.

In Dick's world the prospect of a civilian getting into a gunfight with armed attackers is relatively rare. I personally know more than a dozen people who have survived multi-attacker armed robberies, myself included.

I think he has a vast knowledge of firearms and from his perspective a lot of what we are talking about must sound like Gecko45 to him.

Didn't take the paradigm into account. Also assumed he was local despite quoting $ prices..AND he only registered 2 days ago and already started quite a stirr..

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it is a public forum, so i'll let it be.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

**DickMiller** · 24-08-2013, 00:37

yeah, and you are going to "handle" 15 guys packing AK's with your PISTOL, correct? :-) They must scare easily, is all I can say. I did not say that you might as well not carry. Just don't expect to prevail. There IS a difference, albeit the egos of 90+% of men cannot admit that.

**afzals1** · 24-08-2013, 01:22

Dick over the past number of days I've read quite abit of bullshit after a long time on gunsite, a lot of has been spewed by you! Things are different our buffalo are tougher, our criminals even more so. Maybe understand the laws, what is happening and stop perpetuating the typical American naïveté which you bring to the table. You rattling cages unnecessarily. Many guys here have been in real world situations, have fought of more than 4 armed attackers, etc etc etc. so please think before you type, research before you argue and process before getting argumentative!

**Dickie** · 24-08-2013, 06:41

Originally Posted by DickMiller

Just don't expect to prevail.

You see, thats where you are wrong. I will prevail. I must, what is the alternative, give up and die? No thanks.

**Springer** · 24-08-2013, 06:50

Originally Posted by DickMiller

yeah, and you are going to "handle" 15 guys packing AK's with your PISTOL, correct? :-) They must scare easily, is all I can say. I did not say that you might as well not carry. Just don't expect to prevail. There IS a difference, albeit the egos of 90+% of men cannot admit that.

Mindset fail. Dick, a suggestion. Take some time and research some stories on home and farm defence in SA and Rhodesia before you attempt to spout more ridiculous theory lectures to people who have seen the world from a more realistic perspective.

**Kreefstert** · 24-08-2013, 07:55

Dick, you see the problem is here in SA if you don't fight back despite the odds the gang shoots you, gangrapes your wife and puts your baby in a microwave oven.

We don't do what we do becaue we are big and toughbut because we don't have a choice. Violence is a way of life in SA, for a large % of people its their source of income.

Spend some time on www.news24.com, its our largest online newspaper. You will get a very good idea what is happening in our leafy suburbs.