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  1. #1
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    Default New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    "NEW" ? - how can this be new ? - it has been discussed several times on Gunsite.

    How many times has it been asked and answered here on Gunsite - Can I use my Section 15 and 16 licenced firearm for SD?

    It's new because of the information below and this is for all the doubters and naysayers and those who take the advice on this from their DFO rather than the reasonable expert opions based on experienced interpretation of statute that have been given on Gunsite several times over a number of years.

    Here is what is new:

    An application was made for a Section 13 licence for a 9mmP pistol by someone I personally know.

    The application was refused and this is the official Reasons for the decision on the official SAPS 301 Refusal of Application for a Licence to Possess a Firearm:

    "Standard Reason (1): Already owns similar calibre firearm;

    Comprehensive Reason (1): A firearm in respect of which a licence has been issued in terms of other sections, may be used where it is safe and for a lawful purpose. You possess a 9mm Parabellum to Section 16 that you can use it for Section 13 purpose."

    I quoted this verbatim.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Hopefully this settles it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Well can we sticky this to avoid this question every other week? I have been here for a while now and I have seen this question asked more than any other firearm related question.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Close the site, we don't need it any longer!

  5. #5

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Only problem is you cannot take any of these reasons that CFR comes up for refusal, serious anymore.

    That particular applicant may well have a valid excuse for carrying his sect 16 firearm around.

    Will it apply to the broader public however?

    Is CFR saying that you can also carry your section 17 firearms around now, for SD purposes?

    Will it be OK to go out on neighbourhood patrols with your section 16 semi - auto?

    Why then bother with the different licensing sections, if you can use your section 16 semi - auto for section 14 purposes?

    Why be satisfied with the 2 year limit in section 14 (limited to one firearm), when you can achieve the same goal, without the very strict requirements of section 14, and get a 10 year validity of your (multiple) licenses under section 16?

    It may be a bit dangerous to use this as precedent.

    CFR does not know what it is doing either way.

    Ultimately, one must also consider whether it is wise to follow CFR's advice.

    There is ample authority to the effect that the wrong advice from the law enforcement officer will not indemnify one against prosecution of committing a crime. Ask the fishermen in Mosselbay what they think about following advise from LEO's and where that got them.

  6. #6

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    This is actually kind of amazing. One could not possibly get a clearer answer to the question than this.

    To the legal eagles, is this letter deemed to come from the Registrar himself, and can it be seen as an official, definitive confirmation of how the law should be interpreted?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by MTTSS View Post
    Only problem is you cannot take any of these reasons that CFR comes up for refusal, serious anymore.

    That particular applicant may well have a valid excuse for carrying his sect 16 firearm around.

    Will it apply to the broader public however?

    Is CFR saying that you can also carry your section 17 firearms around now, for SD purposes?

    Will it be OK to go out on neighbourhood patrols with your section 16 semi - auto?

    Why then bother with the different licensing sections, if you can use your section 16 semi - auto for section 14 purposes?

    Why be satisfied with the 2 year limit in section 14, when you can achieve get a 10 year validity of your license under section 16?

    It may be a bit dangerous to use this as precedent.

    CFR does not know what it is doing either way.

    Ultimately, one must also consider whether it is wise to follow CFR's advice.

    There is ample authority to the effect that the wrong advice from the law enforcement officer will not indemnify one against prosecution of committing a crime. Ask the fisherman in Mosselbay what they think about following advise from LEO's and where that got them.
    Your reasoning falls flat based on the "Standard reason (1)" mentioned: A simmilar caliber is allready owned. You can not licence a SLR for SD but you can licence a 9mmP for sec 15/16. I assume that is what happened in this case.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie89 View Post
    You can not licence a SLR for SD but you can licence a 9mmP for sec 15/16. .
    Actually you can... It's called a section 14
    License to possess restricted firearm for self defense.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.


  10. #10

    Default Re: New: Using a Sect 16 licenced firearm for SD.

    If this argument is to go all the way, why would the anti poaching and all the other business purpose guys then go through all the other red tape, to get business accredited, to comply with the higher standards of safes and safekeeping, regulations regarding the issuing of firearms to the operators thereof, etc. All they will have to do is join their nearest club or organization, shoot a couple of papar targets at their own time (eie tyd eie teiken), get dedicated status, and voila, Bob's your uncle.

    The failure here is with CFR which has lost it's collective marbles and will think out anything to refuse a license.

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