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  1. #61
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    Oct 2015
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    42
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    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    We can probably add SIG Sauer P226 tender issued on 19 Jun 2015
    http://www.armscor.co.za/Tenders/con...cor%20Bulletin
    Also Remington 870 shotguns
    http://www.armscor.co.za/Tenders/con...cor%20Bulletin
    Some unit in the SANDF is using a .338 lapua rifle
    http://www.armscor.co.za/Tenders/con...cor%20Bulletin
    Rgds

  2. #62
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    Dec 2014
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    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    Quote Originally Posted by Tango Sierra View Post
    Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    I got to "play" with the first production models. They looked and handled like a million $. But when using them, there were lots of issues. The first thing that broke was the recoil springs. I found the old well-used and worn FN MAG58 to be much better. They might have sorted out the issues later.
    Considering that it's still issued, I'm assuming that these issues have been rectified? TBH the fact that the MAG 58's not been replaced wholesale to me, lends credence to the assertion that the SS-77 isn't necessarily "all that".

  3. #63
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    Feb 2012
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    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    I posted this herehttp://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/showthread.php?64435-Star-B-in-the-military
    We shot with the Star BS in 1980 Navy. At that time had the FN (no blitzbreker, single shot, wood furniture. SA coat of Arms on the mag housing, knife bayonet ) Later we were issued with Beretta 92's. Also had Beretta 12 gauge pumps. In Marines, issued with H&K G3a3 and later R1's, then R4's. The Star was/is a good pistol. The SA version was the BS (the S for the mag safety). From a Star site" The model BS is a normal, second Model B, except with the addition of a magazine safety, made for individuals, locales and agencies which require one. It was produced from 1957 to the end of classic series production in 1983." I read somewhere that SA bought the Star's in the mid 60's. Commercial versions of the BS had a slightly different mag release button, and from inspection, appeared to be factory refurbished guns. We must remember the feat of 2/Lt. van Vuuren at Bridge 14 in 1975 when he shot and killed 11 Cubans with his Star,when they climbed on his Eland armoured car. Although he earned the Honoris Crux, some writers have doubted his story. Lastly, many movie use Star pistols to replicate Colt 1911A1's. This is because 9mm blanks are easier to obtain than .45 blanks. The easiest give-away is the outside extractor on the Star. As an aside, When I did a camp in the early 90's I worked in an armoury at a small base that had boxes and boxes of .38 S&W Victory and Colt Commando pistols. Most were as new in cosmoline and some had been bored out to take .38spl ammo.



    The Star might not be everyones first choice, however the acquisition of the Star as a battle pistol needs to be seen in the context of the time. Most battle pistols were single action, of limited mag capacity, of conventional design and construction. Look at the 1911 (USA), copies thereof, M1950 (France), Astra/Lama/Star (Spain), M1951 (Italy), Sig49 (Swiss). The only real "modern" pistols was the Browning HP, the German P1 (Walther P38) and the S&W M39. Most other nations adopted these or variations. Some used home grown designs and many still had revolvers. Looking at the politics of the time, we were not yet the into the heavy embargoes, so we could possibly have looked at the Browning, had we been influenced by what UK adopted. The police eventually adopted the P1, this could have been a possibility. The US pistols were out. Our ally Portugal was using a mix of whatever they could get. There was no local (SA or Rhodesia) handgun at that time (the Mamba was still to come). That left the French or the Spanish designs. Of the two, our politics were more closely aligned to Franco's Spain. From a technical viewpoint, the thinking at the time was for a simple foolproof pistol (hence the mag safety). It must also be remembered that the move was away from having various weapons at section level- from squad LMG, rifle, smg and pistol, to an assault rifle and lmg, all firing the same calibre. Bullpups, plastic and stampings were taking over from fine finishes and wood. In this context (and it is still relevant today) the pistol was not to be widely issued, and then was seen as a substitute for a "real" gun. Thus pistols were for officers, tank and air crews, MP's and special forces. Special forces however could basically have their choice of equipment.
    The choice of the Star BS in the light of the above seems a fair decision. It was a well made weapon, firing the standard Nato round. It has served and will continue to serve SA well. As an aside, only the Browning HP is still widely use by a number of countries, The 1911 has been resurrected by the US Marines. Most other pistols are now relegated to reserve. Designs have evolved (Sig, Walther, Beretta and the Spanish ladies), but I bet there are more of the early Spanish pistols still doing sterling work than the modern "wonder nines".

  4. #64
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    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    I heard that the SADF bought the Star BS through Nicholas Yale. Any confirmation???

  5. #65

    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    Quote Originally Posted by pcc View Post
    I heard that the SADF bought the Star BS through Nicholas Yale. Any confirmation???
    Correct

    Peter

  6. #66
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    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    Richard83 - PM sent to you.

  7. #67

    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    Hi all,
    If anyone is interested there is a Browning 9mm ex SANDF (Belonged to Deceased Airforce Colonel?) going cheap at Southerns Arms Gauteng.
    It was a friend of mines father in law and as they are immigrating so they dont want it.

  8. #68

    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    My mother was issued an FN Baby Browning whilst serving. Not sure exactly when, but I think it was later when she served as an officer in the Castle of Good Hope. I'm pretty sure it wasn't standard, but then again, a woman serving in the SADF in the 80s wasn't really standard either.

  9. #69
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    Mar 2011
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    West Rand, Gauteng
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    2,641

    Default Re: PISTOLS USED BY THE SADF & SANDF

    What about the Browning Medalist .22LR? The 1975 SADF Small Arms list has all the stuff in inventory at that time. I can supply copies in need. Handguns include Baby Browning, Star DKL, Star B, Browning Medalist plus all the revolvers from the Boer War to Webley Mk6. Obviously SF issue are not included.

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