Leaving the crime scene

**Teez** · 12-11-2008, 08:17

Hi All

What would the repercussions be in the following scenario? ???

I am with my friend or with the wife, driving somewhere & I am involved in a hijacking/shootout. My wife or my bud gets shot, in the process I kill one of the BG's & the others escape. I then drive realise that the wife/friend is injured.
I call the cops & EMS, but decide to rush my wife/friend to the closest hospital.

What would happen to me for leaving the crime scene?

The medical guys on this forum (Dr Dave & co) is it advisable to move the person & get them to the hospital for medical assistance asap?

Teez

**vaughan** · 12-11-2008, 09:25

I would say that under those circumstances if you were to leave it would be ok if you phoned the authorities and reported it to them and once friend is ok go to the police.

well atleast I hope that it would be like this ???

**Corné** · 12-11-2008, 10:13

I do not think that under this type of situation that there is a problem. I am sure as hell not going to wait around if say I know that I am just around the corner of medical assistance.... My view is that you are not fleeing the crime scene but merely attempting to obtain medical assistance. Once at the hospital I would suggest that you wait for the police at the hospital and do not go and rush home or somewhere else. I would say that the importance of receiving medical assistance is bigger than remaining at the crime scene...

However I am curious about the input from Dr Dave on this matter regarding the correctness of moving a person in this condition....

**andredt** · 12-11-2008, 10:19

Well i have been in court a few times and i am by no means i expert but the court allways look at the situation what would a reasonable person have done in this circumstances.

Well i bet my ass that if the judge was driving and the same happend to him, he would also rush his wife/friend to the hospital. In a shooting situation every min counts and it is unfair to expect a person to wait 10-15 for a romeo viechle Or private medic to get there.

That's what i think. looking forward to hear what the people that act know will answer.

**Teez** · 12-11-2008, 12:09

Yes, I know that I would be footing it , to the closest hospital, I would rather face the music in court later, than gamble with my someone's life.

What if this happend at home & a dead BG is inside your house?

Could you tell someone (the neighbours) to wait at the crime scene & explain to the police that you are on your way to the hospital & you will come back soon?

What happens at the hospital, will they allow you to leave once you drop off the patient & know they are ok?

**Corné** · 12-11-2008, 12:22

F**k the dead BG in the house...if medical care is needed that is where I will be heading......

At the hospital...I would say that it is better to wait for the cops at the hospital and the reason being that while you drive back home your vehicle might have already been placed on the lookout list and you might just end up being pulled off as a suspect in a crime. Due to the stress you may be in you may just take a wrong road and thus it might seem that you are not going straight home but trying to flea the scene.... Yes it is better to be at the crime scene when the cops arrive but the required medical attention overrides this issue....

IMO...

**Teez** · 12-11-2008, 12:33

Originally Posted by Corné

F**k the dead BG in the house...if medical care is needed that is where I will be heading......

My thoughts exactly. ;D

**Teez** · 12-11-2008, 12:51

Originally Posted by Corné

At the hospital...I would say that it is better to wait for the cops at the hospital and the reason being that while you drive back home your vehicle might have already been placed on the lookout list and you might just end up being pulled off as a suspect in a crime. Due to the stress you may be in you may just take a wrong road and thus it might seem that you are not going straight home but trying to flea the scene.... Yes it is better to be at the crime scene when the cops arrive but the required medical attention overrides this issue....

IMO...

OK what if there is no time to call the cops & you rush to the hospital, but the neighbours do, do you then call the cops & tell them you just shot someone & you are at the hospital?

Will the fact that you did not call them first, make you look guilty?

**Corné** · 12-11-2008, 14:44

IMO it is more important to obtain the medical assistance than getting the cops. Yes I will phone them at the first appropriate moment but other priorities will have my attention first. Lets say you arrive at a accident scene....what is the most important immediate reaction....medical / rescue service...I will first phone these blokes then the police / metro.

What if you are also shot / injured and have gotten the ability to get yourself to the hospital and at that point you get rushed into emergency surgery.....your wife/partner/companion is also in surgery or did not make it....are you going to tell them hold on you just want to phone the cops? The hospital will phone the cops if they see you are not able but their first priority will be to get you the required medical treatment. The police is a extremely important part but medical treatment to safe a life will have priority.

As I say...IMO....

**Porramedic** · 17-11-2008, 06:37

We deal with this situation all the time. Sometimes we're hanging around at the hospital when somebody drives in with their mate who has been shot. Sometimes its when we are on scene and we are ready to move to hospital with the patient and the cops haven't arrived yet. I have never seen a problem with the cops where somebody had a genuine reason for leaving. Somebody on the scene lets them know that they've gone to hospital and we often see them there getting details or taking statements. They deal with this type of situation fairly often.

What I would do is to try and preserve the crime scene. If it happens at your house try get your security company or neighbours to restrict access till the cops arrive. Easier said than done, I know. Unfortunately at these scenes "Rent-a-mob" comes crawling out of the woodwork and the last thing you want is people trampling the scene or even worse, stealing the BG's firearm.

As for moving the victim, its a judgement call. Personally if your mate is already in the vehicle I would make wheels round and move to hospital. Waiting for EMS wastes valuable seconds. If they are outside the vehicle, again its a judgement call. If they have taken a shot to the arm or leg look for any major arterial bleeding and stop what you can. Unless you cannot stop the external bleeding these guys can usually wait for us to come and make them more comfortable and take them to hospital.

Penetrating injury to the torso/neck/head is another story. Whew, unfortunately what you do here depends on many variables. How far are you from your nearest trauma centre? Which EMS services operate in your area? Numerous credible studies have shown that patients with life threatening penetrating trauma have consistently better outcomes when rushed straight to hospital by private transport. This is not because paramedics are incompetent. It's purely because if you have a life threatening internal bleed the fastest you get into theatre to have that bleed surgically repaired the better your chances.

Actually, many wounds to the torso are not immediately life threatening. A simple lung wound does not result in major bleeding and the life threatening complications take a while to develop. A GSW to the abdo may only hit bowel without perforating any vessels or solid organs. Unfortunately you can't be expected to figure out whether a GSW is potentially life threatening. The position of the entrance wound is unreliable. It way have been an angled shot or may have changed course within the body.

Do your research before the time and develop your game plan. What I would do is find out which hospitals in your area are capable of handling major trauma. Many private hospitals are NOT! It would be unprofessional for me to comment on this in an open forum but if you PM me I may be able to comment on a hospital in JHB. Look their number up and save it in your phone. If you do take somebody to hospital, try phone them when you are on the way (the paramedics do this on the road). It gives them time to mobilise the team and get ready. If you tear in there while everyone is drinking coffee it will take time to get everyone ready and page the trauma surgeon out from home.