Production turned into Standard lite. Good or bad?

**pdh** · 16-03-2017, 12:49

Originally Posted by A-R

The Shadow likely started the trend towards more competition-orientated production pistols. Progress is only ever bad to everyone who is left behind.

More seriously, we all should seriously consider why we compete and how far we want to go.

If you are only shooting to improve your skills and get some trigger time with your pistols, it does not really matter what you shoot. Your EDC gun is likely the best option here.

Do not make the mistake of assuming that the top shooters got there due to the fancy guns they have. Go add up the cost of a year's worth of practice and competition shooting. Include the cost of ammo (reloading components and tools), range fees, travel and accomodation cost, unpaid leave etc etc. Compared to the total cost of being at the top in any sport, the cost of a pistol (or 2) is hardly significant.

The shooters with the expensive guns have most likely gotten there shooting a more affordable, "everyone has one" gun. When that pistol was shot to bits, they upgraded to a fancy, expensive, and hopefully more durable pistol.

My advice is to start at the bottom (equipment wise) and climb the ladder when your abilities exceed those of your tools. Never forget what a guy like Bob Vogel acheived with a mere Glock 17.

It's the driver that counts, not the bus.

This

**willehond** · 16-03-2017, 12:56

Originally Posted by pdh

This

I agree with that.

Dave Sevigny and Rober Vogel won with G17's before Adam Tyc rocked up with his SP-01. Vogel did also say that he felt that you are at an disadvantage against the heavier competition guns. I am big Vogel fan. I love the fact that he won the US IPSC nats be some margin with his G35. The G35 does have a lot of weight added though, but still.

Because I am an also-ran. I pull out my bone stock G35 for many STD matches just for shits and giggles. Always good to have a excuse.

**willehond** · 16-03-2017, 13:03

It seems everyone is thinking that Production Div is moving in the right direction. That is good then. I just thought it would make for an interesting discussion.

**Maciek** · 16-03-2017, 13:08

Originally Posted by willehond

I agree with that.

Dave Sevigny and Rober Vogel won with G17's before Adam Tyc rocked up with his SP-01. Vogel did also say that he felt that you are at an disadvantage against the heavier competition guns. I am big Vogel fan. I love the fact that he won the US IPSC nats be some margin with his G35. The G35 does have a lot of weight added though, but still.

Because I am an also-ran. I pull out my bone stock G35 for many STD matches just for shits and giggles. Always good to have a excuse.

Vogel shot STI for 2 years before moving to Glock, why? simple - suits his shooting style more - Glock requires brute force to drive proper, STI a little bit more finesse - according to him (Shooters Summit 2017). So not all 'expensive' production guns suit all shooters.

**Captain Hook** · 16-03-2017, 13:10

Originally Posted by neilh

National 83-85%

Yeah. Neil ran his glockenspiel 19 (cheap prod gun and he kept it very standard) for a while and did well. He also sought out training, knowledge, he dry fired and didn't blame circumstances.

**willehond** · 16-03-2017, 13:22

Originally Posted by Maciek

Vogel shot STI for 2 years before moving to Glock, why? simple - suits his shooting style more - Glock requires brute force to drive proper, STI a little bit more finesse - according to him (Shooters Summit 2017). So not all 'expensive' production guns suit all shooters.

Another big reason he gave was that he could not get his left hand high enough on the other guns without it interfering with the safety lever and the slide stop.

**willehond** · 16-03-2017, 13:24

Originally Posted by Captain Hook

Yeah. Neil ran his glockenspiel 19 (cheap prod gun and he kept it very standard) for a while and did well. He also sought out training, knowledge, he dry fired and didn't blame circumstances.

Yes good shooters will always do well with what ever they shoot. Not exactly my point.

**willehond** · 16-03-2017, 13:30

There is a definate difference in my scores when I shoot my CZ TS compared to my G35. STD rules and type of guns has been the same for a very long time. You know what you get into from the start in STD Div.

In production however, it seems the goal keeps on moving every year. It that fair to all shooters?

**The Beast** · 16-03-2017, 13:53

Originally Posted by willehond

There is a definate difference in my scores when I shoot my CZ TS compared to my G35. STD rules and type of guns has been the same for a very long time. You know what you get into from the start in STD Div.

In production however, it seems the goal keeps on moving every year. It that fair to all shooters?

If it is legal within the rules it's good to go. Trying to be fair to the guy that can't afford it is fine but that is also being unfair to the guy that can.