Primary and Secondary firearms for SAPS

[para]

The thread on "Should SAPS carry their own firearms" has become a little stale.

Which Primaryand Secondary firearms do you think the SAPS should carry.
Imagine you're in the SAPS and you could choose your Poison.

Should both be handgun calibres and should they share mags?
Should the Rifle be Full Auto capable or not?
What about the shotgun?
Which calibres do you think would be best suited?

Keep this thread on track, and maybe I can print it and use it in the future as part of a presentation. :police:

[ikor]

Rifle...something simple, reliable, short. light and handy in 5.56 definitely...Dashprod maybe with 14-16 in barrel? NO auto fire capability...semi only.

No...rifle and pistol calibers should not be the same. Pistol is fine at 9mm but they need good, modern JHP ammo.

Shotgun...12ga Remington M870 with both SG and slug loads...miles ahead of that miserable Musler!

[SSP]

Rifle: Something short, folding stock, robust and in 7.62X39 for superior hard target penetration. SA only.
Pistol: G17
Shotgun: The republic arms does what it needs to do. Issue it with something other than rubber. Have orange stock versions for Public order work.

[andredt]

Agree 5.56 is good for the secondary weapon/rifle.

The R5 is still a good weapon in my opinion its not to bulky and comfortable to carry.

I reckon the handguns/rifles must be upgrade (not that it will happen) but should remain the same so mags and accessories can be exchanged among members.

Weapons should also be assigned to a person and him/her is the only one that can carry the firearm. In this why you wont end up with damaged pistols, or a R5 without a firring pin.

That's just my opinion the member takes care of the firearm takes it in to the armoury to get serviced and so on. That why you don't get punished with a old half broken firearm.

The next issue is ammo. Dam howmany of the R5 rounds in our safe has dents in and are just not right. I reckon there is only 40 R5 rounds that's in a good Nick. :police:

[para]

Ikor I like the 870 idea.So slick and trouble free with MOD's to cream yourself over.

What a bout a 40 like the Gl22?
Will the lack of a safety have dangerous consequences on the not yet competent members?

What about the HK53a3?

[SSP]

The next issue is ammo. Dam howmany of the R5 rounds in our safe has dents in and are just not right. I reckon there is only 40 R5 rounds that's in a good Nick. :police:

Thats an AD waiting to happen.

[andredt]

AD?

[ikor]

Ikor I like the 870 idea.So slick and trouble free with MOD's to cream yourself over.

What a bout a 40 like the Gl22?
Will the lack of a safety have dangerous consequences on the not yet competent members?

What about the HK53a3?

Yes, the 870 has proven itself around the world in both Police and Military service for decades. Little known fact is that while the Mossberg was chosen at the last Military pump shotgun trials, Remington never entered them...they were so far behind in production versus demand they did not need the business...yet individual units still buy lots of 870s when they can. Remington now sells a package called the MCS that would be very nice to have for members who would take care of the guns, although I think not for general service.

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/870mcs.htm

My opinion is that the G22 might be a bit much for officers who do not get nearly enough range time or ammo, but it is a good gun. I would be fine with the 9mm...even with the Beretta (although I prefer the 'G' model with decocker only) IF good modern JHP ammo is utilized...such as the Ranger T or HST, Gold Dot, etc. Given enough time and money, you can expand your choices, but without them, the Beretta is not a 'bad' pistol, just a bit long in the tooth.

Personally I would rather see limited funds spent on good ammo, more and better training with regular qualification sessions, modern security holsters and better belts . gear such as torches than on brand new pistols and all that is required for them. I think the officers and the public would be better served with that option than with new guns, but if money was no object then yes, I would choose the G17 / G19 I think. God knows it could not be any more difficult to teach guys to keep their fingers off of the trigger until they are ready to shoot than to thumb lower a hammer over a live round as I have seen some do with the SP1.

The HK is a fine gun as well...but having had two 53's in our armory for several years and shooting both several times, I would say that short barrel really cuts its effectiveness on target and the damned thing is LOUD! ;D

[SSP]

AD?

I presumed you meant dents in the primer. After a few chamberings they will slam fire.

[para]

SSP plenty of that ammo around within SAPS