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    Default Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    I am involved in trying to establish a conservancy in Zimbabwe and need some advice on dog breeds that will be needed.

    The area has a problem with poachers coming in at night armed with spears and with dogs to poach. The anti-poaching patrols are unarmed and out numbered when they encounter the poachers at night. When the armed guards go out to intercept the poachers simply lie low in the dark and then disappear into the night.

    The guys on the ground are wanting to acquire dogs to deploy with the anti poaching patrols. They are looking for tracking dogs to follow up and follow the scent of the poachers and then attack dogs to attack the poachers and/or dogs when they catch up to them with the armed response.

    Please can I have some input as to what breeds are recommended for:

    a.) Tracking; and
    b.) Attacking.

    Many thanks

  2. #2
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    A halfway decent trained dual purpose dog is a significant investment. You are looking at at least R50k for the dog alone.

    Then you need to train a competent handler and have kenneling and veterinary support.

    Sending such a valuable resource into the field without armed back up immediately to hand is going to end very badly.

    You are going to have problems using dogs trained to attack other dogs in a conservancy as they will probably attack game and other livestock too.

    Breed wise - all dogs can track or bite to a greater or lesser extent. Bloodhounds are great for tracking, but they are not great at the bite work.

    Look at the Northern European Shepherd breeds: Malinois, Dutch Shepherds are the more commonly used dogs. Working line versions of these are serious dogs that require a dedicated and experienced handler - I cannot stress this enough. GSDs too, but most of the bloodlines here have been fucked by show breeders.

    I strongly suggest that you spend a bit of time with a competent K9 section of an anti poaching team so that you can understand the dogs capabilities and needs before you go down this road.

    If you give me lead time I can see if I can put you into contact with some guys running dogs in this context.
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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    I would agree 100% with SSP here and he has experience with working breeds.

    We have a Dutch Shepherd and a Belgian Malinois. These breeds are fantastic trackers and protection dogs but these are breeds for a really experienced handler. My housemate has hordes of experience with them but I'll be honest and admit that I battle with them! They have ridiculously high drive.

    A properly trained dog with an experienced handler is a powerful tool. But guys without experience often see this as a easy fix to their problems. The amount of work involved to get to the point where you have a formidable team is enormous and requires a great deal of dedication.

    Ethical breeders of quality working lines have waiting lists stretching into years! In addition, buyers need to be pre-approved. Anybody who will just sell you a Malinois is dodgy. There are very, very few Dutchies in SA.

    I would suggest that you contact Charles Sadler from Sadler Canines. This is where we got our Dutchie from. He supplies top working dogs for anti-poaching units too and I think he would be able to give you more advice and guidance. I don't have his phone number handy but here is his Facebook page
    https://www.facebook.com/sadlerscanine

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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
    A properly trained dog with an experienced handler is a powerful tool. But guys without experience often see this as a easy fix to their problems. The amount of work involved to get to the point where you have a formidable team is enormous and requires a great deal of dedication.

    Ethical breeders of quality working lines have waiting lists stretching into years! In addition, buyers need to be pre-approved. Anybody who will just sell you a Malinois is dodgy. There are very, very few Dutchies in SA.

    I would suggest that you contact Charles Sadler from Sadler Canines. This is where we got our Dutchie from. He supplies top working dogs for anti-poaching units too and I think he would be able to give you more advice and guidance. I don't have his phone number handy but here is his Facebook page
    https://www.facebook.com/sadlerscanine
    I agree. The development of a K9 team is also only part of the equation. The team is a specialist tool and must be deployed in the right circumstances and with the right support. Prior to establishing such a program you must understand how, when and why these teams are deployed and what their capabilities and needs are.

    I know Charles. He is a good guy and will give you good advice.

    However, I think that you should try and make contact with a team and talk to someone with operational experience in the field.
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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    The development of a K9 team is also only part of the equation. The team is a specialist tool and must be deployed in the right circumstances and with the right support. Prior to establishing such a program you must understand how, when and why these teams are deployed and what their capabilities and needs are.
    Agreed on this point. Dogs alone aren't going to solve the problem and need to be part of a broader strategy. I would also agree that deploying dogs against dogs doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't see it ending well. But I have no experience in this area



    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    However, I think that you should try and make contact with a team and talk to someone with operational experience in the field.
    Agreed. This is out of my lane. I've asked a friend with some experience in this area to recommend someone to speak to. I'll let you know if I get anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by neilw View Post
    When the armed guards go out to intercept the poachers simply lie low in the dark and then disappear into the night.
    Given that a K9 unit is a long-term project I think you would be better served by some quality thermal night vision equipment in the meantime

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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
    Agreed on this point. Dogs alone aren't going to solve the problem and need to be part of a broader strategy. I would also agree that deploying dogs against dogs doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't see it ending well. But I have no experience in this area
    I think that injury to the dog is very likely. This, of course, defeats the entire object because then that dog is out of operation until it heals up. Also, depending on how hard the dog is and the extent of the injury you may will find that the dog will not work anymore for fear of injury again.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
    Given that a K9 unit is a long-term project I think you would be better served by some quality thermal night vision equipment in the meantime
    Agree. Or arming your tracking teams. Or training your armed response teams to track.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
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    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    What are Ridgebacks like as anti-poaching dogs?

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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
    Agreed on this point. Dogs alone aren't going to solve the problem and need to be part of a broader strategy. I would also agree that deploying dogs against dogs doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't see it ending well. But I have no experience in this area





    Agreed. This is out of my lane. I've asked a friend with some experience in this area to recommend someone to speak to. I'll let you know if I get anything.


    Given that a K9 unit is a long-term project I think you would be better served by some quality thermal night vision equipment in the meantime
    This will probably be the best possible solution with the cheapest and most effective options. Good thermal wil probably get you 5 -7 units for the cost of a well trained dog and almost no maintenance cost. Training will be a few hours at most.

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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by FantomBadger View Post
    What are Ridgebacks like as anti-poaching dogs?
    Hey there PB! I can't comment on them in the anti-poaching role specifically but they were originally bred to keep lions at bay during hunting, so they are pretty fearless. They have unbelievable stamina and their senses are pretty good all round so they may well fit the role

    Most ethical breeders of working breeds typically breed in two lines - a "show line" and a "working line". Your show lines typically have a lot of the drive bred out of them and are better suited as pets and show dogs. SSP alluded to this problem with GSDs earlier. Most local GSDs actually make pretty poor working dogs, due to breeding practices. So it's not as simple as just choosing the right breed. You need to find the right breeder who has a legacy of quality working dogs

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    Default Re: Advice of dog breeds for anti-poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
    This will probably be the best possible solution with the cheapest and most effective options. Good thermal wil probably get you 5 -7 units for the cost of a well trained dog and almost no maintenance cost. Training will be a few hours at most.
    Good point!

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