Neighbourhood policing/patrols/groups

**Matu** · 05-02-2018, 15:23

Hi Guys,

So we had a small incident on our road the other night, apparently, 2 guys where jumping walls from house to house looking for an opportunity... long story short all armed response was there, including a particular company with some nice ARs, they searched all houses, etc.

Out of the corner of my eye, I see a Pvt car arriving into our enclosure, a very friendly couple wearing orange vests introduced themselves as the neighbourhood patrol group/policing/patrol...I don't even know the formal name for such group is but apparently they read the news on a WhatsApp group.
Anyways, them not been spring chickens and been totally unarmed (well, besides for a nightstick and cable ties) I couldn't help myself but think: what the f*** are they doing here?
Don't get me wrong, it's amazing that people are devoted to the cause and helping the fellow neighbour but really? a nightstick and zip ties?
I have a FA and I was extremely cautious when approaching the security companies and lending a helping hand with extra torches, etc..

Is anyone on the forum part of their respective neighbourhood patrol groups? What are the legalities of being a member and utilizing your FA? etc..... any info appreciated!

**Teamcam** · 05-02-2018, 15:36

Hi sir
With regards to FA use during night patrols, we are actually not allowed to use them as we are going above what we applied for.
There is a big question mark with regards to this as sadly the criminals of today are far more well equipped as opposed to 5 years ago...
There suppose to be some ruling happening this month which will lay down the rules regarding NHW using dash.roof strobes, Firearms & stop & searching...

**Matu** · 05-02-2018, 15:44

Originally Posted by Teamcam

Hi sir
With regards to FA use during night patrols, we are actually not allowed to use them as we are going above what we applied for.
There is a big question mark with regards to this as sadly the criminals of today are far more well equipped as opposed to 5 years ago...
There suppose to be some ruling happening this month which will lay down the rules regarding NHW using dash.roof strobes, Firearms & stop & searching...

Thanks for the info Teamcam!
so what are the nightly duties conducted by groups like this?
I assume no arrests can be made either, no FA as you said, so whats the goal to achieve? create awareness in society? try to create a presence on our roads so criminals are deterred from venturing our woods?

**Teamcam** · 05-02-2018, 15:50

"Ears & Eyes ONLY"
Although some of the policing sector managers are not too strict depending how the NHW conduct themselves.
Best is to sit down with your area saps & get advice from them as to how to conduct oneself with the NHW

**Zuku** · 05-02-2018, 15:51

Hi Matu. remember most MHW members are volunteers. Their duty is just observe and relay info to security comp and SAPS. They also informed members not to get involved in certain scenarios and AFAIK most NHW wont allow patrollers to be armed with FA. But I assume it will differ from suburb to suburb

**prepare2win** · 05-02-2018, 16:12

As a patroller you have zero legal difference to the average citizen. It matters not that you form a group, get uniforms, put magnetic signs on your car etc etc etc. Yes, you may enjoy some increased co-operation from your local law enforcement, but you do not have any special powers or privileges, and you are personally liable for your actions.

As a private citizen, you can make arrests, use force to make an arrest, and search someone you have arrested, as well as enter private property in pursuit of a suspect. I suggest you become thoroughly familiar with sections 42, 39, 49, 23, 20, 29 and 48 of the Criminal Procedures Act

Also, your NW group or CPF cannot prohibit you from carrying your firearm or other means of self defense (maybe they wont allow you to stay a member of their little group) Patrolling is really no different legally to walking or driving around your hood. But remember, if you use your firearm, you are bound by the same laws as any other member of the public would be.

As for the nightsticks and zipties, have a look at the Guardian Angels, the oldest and largest international community safety patrol organisation. They patrol in groups, unarmed, and tackle gang and drug ridden areas

**Matu** · 05-02-2018, 16:12

very interesting guys

**Teamcam** · 05-02-2018, 16:27

Yes also heard & seen great work done by The Guardian Angels

**Kola** · 05-02-2018, 16:35

Originally Posted by prepare2win

As a patroller you have zero legal difference to the average citizen. It matters not that you form a group, get uniforms, put magnetic signs on your car etc etc etc. Yes, you may enjoy some increased co-operation from your local law enforcement, but you do not have any special powers or privileges, and you are personally liable for your actions.

As a private citizen, you can make arrests, use force to make an arrest, and search someone you have arrested, as well as enter private property in pursuit of a suspect. I suggest you become thoroughly familiar with sections 42, 39, 49, 23, 20, 29 and 48 of the Criminal Procedures Act

Also, your NW group or CPF cannot prohibit you from carrying your firearm or other means of self defense (maybe they wont allow you to stay a member of their little group) Patrolling is really no different legally to walking or driving around your hood. But remember, if you use your firearm, you are bound by the same laws as any other member of the public would be.

As for the nightsticks and zipties, have a look at the Guardian Angels, the oldest and largest international community safety patrol organisation. They patrol in groups, unarmed, and tackle gang and drug ridden areas

This.

We carry, but make sure our local SAPS know when we do, and how to recognise us and our vehicles when out there.

**prepare2win** · 05-02-2018, 17:01

I've been involved with several NWs over the years and sadly most of them miss the point completely. The goal should be to prevent crime before it happens, through a highly visible presence. But that's not as exciting as playing tactical response operator, sneaking around in the dark on "ops" and wheel spinning their cars to rush to a scene 15 minutes after the "perp" has already left, then jamming up the road and contaminating the scene

Be proactive, not reactive