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  1. #11
    Member Andrew Leigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    My Sako .375 weights the same as either my 6.5mm or my 30-06. It naturally "points" better so target acquisition is a little quicker. It is ergonomically a great rifle to handle.

    The last time I went hunting I had all three calibres with me but decided to "blood" the .375 first. We had a "ladies" hunting weekend, I took a Kudu cow first and that was it, the .375 never left my side. The Kudu was followed by a Bushbuck ewe followed by and Impala ewe and then a Warthog sow not necessarily in that order. I simply did not want to stop hunting with the .375 and the other rifle stayed bagged. Don't ask me why it is a pleasure to shoot.

    Yes perhaps and overkill but minimal meat damage, nothing went far from where the stood.

    We got on some Eland and my mate had a .308 loaded with factory ammo with Barnes 160'something grain bullets. I told him to take the .375 and he said no. I saw the impact through my scope and it was in the boiler room and should have been a kill shot. We followed the blood spoor for 5 hours which eventually dried up, no Eland. I think he would have been better of taking a shot from the .375.

    A great calibre.
    One too many wasted sunsets and one too many for the road .........

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to caliber size, meaning somewhere along the line it doesn’t matter how big the caliber is the terminal effect on the animal is more or less the same. Being one of those people that closely inspect my kills, how long the animal takes to go down, and the damage to the vitals, I can attest to this first hand.

    When shot on the lungs there is no clear pattern of going down faster between a 222, 243, 270, 308 or 338. I found this very interesting because if you put the first and last bullet next to each other there is a remarkable difference. The trick is bullets have a specific function, to destroy vitals, and how animals react when shot is also very hard to predict, like a bwb running much the better with a hole through the heart.

    What makes the comparison more difficult between calibers, is the fact that the 300gr pmp softpoint for example is known for failures, where I would trust a barnes in my 270 over it any day of the week for penetration. And even if you use a premium in the 375 it changes nothing, since you already have adequate penetration in the smaller cal, which is cheaper and much more pleasant to shoot. I for example was under no illusion about this fact when I bought my 338, I bought a bigger cal because I wanted one, period.

    I mean think about it, the reputation of the 375 is based on what, how people use it today, no ways.
    More animals have been shot in a 375 with softpoint bullets than will ever be shot with premiums, hence in theory you will see better penetration and bullet integrity from smaller medium cals today than with the results that made the 375’s reputation. Hunting is all about how it makes us feel, that is why special bonds are made between people and rifles, including cartridges. You cannot wish this fact away hence emotion will always come to play when talking calibers(read cartridges). For example myself I find it extremely annoying when someone wants to buy a 375H&H, why, the 375 Ruger is a much better design, then people bring stuff into the conversation like “because classic” and whatnot.

    But it’s how humans operate, must make peace with that, hunting itself basically just requires skill, stuff like cartridges is novelties.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    I thought we were keeping emotion and subjectivity out of it? Personally, I feel like the H&H allows for serious peace of mind, regardless of what is on the menu. I know that, regardless of what happens (always the expect the unexpected), the kit in question is up to the task. It's insurance and insurance is never a bad idea. If you're using the rifle purely for hunting purposes, price isn't too much of an issue. Your range gun can always be a smaller (read cheaper) caliber in a similar rig, we all like having an excuse for multiple bang sticks any way!

    On the eland point, or perhaps even a buff cow one day (dreaming too much?), do you really want to be using an unfamiliar rifle when hunting such? Every man to himself, but I'm not a fan of that idea.


    Won't get into the ruger, as it's not the topic of the question. But for the H&H, to sum up:
    1) Accurate
    2) Never met a fussy rifle chambered in .375 H&H, they eat everything (granted, that's a grand total of 5...)
    3) Feed beautifully due to the taper
    4) Peace of mind while hunting, regardless of what you're hunting (serious DG excluded)- it puts things down quickly
    5) You can find ammo in every little dorp, I've never come across a shop without H&H ammo
    6) Recoil really isn't that shocking with a FA that fits you

    It's really appealing walking around with a FA that's reliable in every sense of the word, it removes a lot of anxiety from the equation and that is something I can not over appreciate.

    Essentially you need to decide what is more important to you. For me, it's reliability and ease of mind. Others might not agree.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    Messor....The 375 Ruger is a much better design than the H&H? That is like saying the new car i have can do 300km/h which makes it a better design than my old car which can only do 290km/h.........even though i only use the car to go to the local Spar 2 blocks away.

    Southpaw....Those 6 points you made to sum up the H&H....use the same points to describe the 3006 and see how much sense it also makes.
    [ Not arguing with you,you really made a lot of good points in your post]

    The problem is human nature.Everyone wants the best and the biggest and the fact is that most people will shoot better with a 308 than they will with a 375. Stupid thing to repeat but a 308 bullet in the front shoulders of an animal beats any 375 bullet in the back shoulders.

    I am a 375H&H fan and feel very comfortable with it. I also know a couple of chaps who hunt almost exclusively with the 375 and these chaps are 2 of the best hunters i know.

    Unfortunately abillity and bragging rights normally clash and i have seen some horrendous shooting done with 7mm RM,300 WM and the 375 H&H to come to the conclusion that most hunters would be better off with a 308.

  5. #15
    Member Andrew Leigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    I have no dog in this fight. My desire for a larger calibre was based on want and not need. I originally wanted a 9.3mm to compliment the 6.5mm and the 30-06 to give me the old "classic" triad of calibres. My ownership of a .375 was due to a bargain I simply could not refuse. I have no qualms with the .375 Ruger which has a growing popularity. Personally I confess a bias for the more established calibres and have a slight aversion to the more modern versions. Similarly I have a bias for slow and heavy over light and fast calibres. So I would chose a 6.5mm over a .243 and a 30-06 over a .270. I am not partial to pissing competitions so debate over the calibres just mentioned is rather futile as all are well proven in the field and have been debated to the point of ludicracy. Shooters will always defend their chosen calibre's and their death ray of choice will always be special to them and have mythical qualities.

    The Ruger vs. the H&H is slightly different, both shoot a 300gr. the one faster than the other and both are equally capable. So to remove the clutter and emotion lets bring it down to numbers. The only site I could find using like on like, the same bullet, powder and case was Somchem who claim the following;

    Ruger - Somchem claims 2 520fps with a 300gr. A Frame using 70.0gr. S355 with V/C ratio of 36.0.
    H&H - Somchem claims 2405fps with a 300gr. A Frame using 67.5gr S355 with a V/C ratio of 35.6.

    So in my mind efficiency is about getting more from the same. The V/C ratio is one measure for this. So forgetting the .375 availability of ammo (reloading removes this constraint), ease of feed (mute point), the extra round one gets in the mag (also a mute point IMO other than ergonomics) none of these speak to the cartridge effectiveness / design. Like for like from a Somchem V/C perspective, the Ruger has a 1.1% advantage, which to my mind hardly constitutes a "much" better design, considering all the modern computer aided engineering modelling programs, newer barrel and receiver materials, Ruger have only managed a 1.1% improvement over a 106 year old design.

    All that aside, as an only rifle I would be happy to carry a .375 H&H, .375 Ruger, 9.3mm as my go to hunting rifle. I just like the .37'ish calibres. Given my bias I would prefer the 9.3mm and then the H&H in that order. Had there been a great deal on the Ruger I may well be a .375 Ruger owner.
    One too many wasted sunsets and one too many for the road .........

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    I thought we were keeping emotion and subjectivity out of it? Personally, I feel
    :)

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    Quote Originally Posted by pre 64 View Post
    Messor....The 375 Ruger is a much better design than the H&H?
    Jip, much better.
    But as soon as you start quoting figures you miss the reason why, as it was designed to do the same thing.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    Only 3

    1) 22
    2) Twelve Bore Shotty
    3) 375

    That is it, no emotion no nothing. These 3 have worked for 99% of hunters I know. Leaving out commercial hunting/guiding etc.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    I have been reading the debate with some interest as I recently purchased a larger calibre, because I wanted one , .... but mainly for ease of mind to hunt large(r) body antelope like eland.

    In reading some opinions at the time, and hunting with some chaps shooting 375's, it seems that some guys are a bit over confident shooting a "large" calibre and some times take bad shots as they think they can hit the animal "anywhere" close to the chest area, and it will go down. I know this is not always true but a perception that exists. So no matter what calibre you shoot, shot selection must be considered propperly, and for that matter bullet selection.

    I don't whant to change the direction of the debate, but I eventaly went with 338 WM partly due to the large range in bullet weight and speed, as it seems more versatile for application in both bush and plains game.

    Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Let’s discuss the 375H&H. Without emotion

    JD, confidence plays a huge part in hunting.

    Now it must be two ways, ability and equipment.
    If you don’t have the ability then you will never be confident, so no use debating that side.
    I think what the 375 does for those that CAN shoot, is knowing with a good bullet his combo simply cannot fail. In short DG aside, if you go hunting your rifle can do what needs done.
    If one explores that further, then in some way it does empower you, makes you mentally more prepared for the hunt.

    You don’t often read on this forum where someone asks is my 375 enough gun, why, because it is.
    But you get a LOT of questions in the smaller cals, asking is my combo enough for BWB and eland, if you ask that question then you are not confident in your combo.

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