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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    Greetings, I'm trying to source thermal weapon sights for civilian use and ownership(ie must be classified Dual Use and not Munitions List). Up to now the only brands I'm aware of, including Chinese , are all classified ML which means highly illegal to market, sell , own or export if you are a civilian without the necessary licenses / permits. Are there any brands that members know of that have Dual use thermal weapon sights? (with reticle)

  2. #2
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    Aug 2012
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    Pretoria, South Africa
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    I find it HIGHLY improbably that sights will be illegal to use when you can buy thermal imaging cellphones these days. Who told you these things are illegal to own/import/etc?

  3. #3
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    May 2009
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not a case of NVG goodies being illegal to export from the US? Itar restriction, no?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    I think they're only illegal to buy from the US, not to own here in SA

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    Contact Futurama, ECMTech, Bernhard Agencies, Euro Optic Africa.

    Futurama has a good selection.

    TacShac also have some products, I think.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2016
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    Sharonlea
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    I'm confused.
    Your intro said you import them, and this thread now seems to be asking about what brands are legal here.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    Thanks for the responses. Just for clarity I'm not referring to night vision or image intensified systems or digital night vision. Apart from Gen 3 NV , thermal weapon sites are totally different legality to the other vision systems I mentioned .

    Here's a brief outline. Thermal products in general are classified either dual use or munitions list items. Handling of thermal products is controlled by both exporting and importing countries. For products eminating from USA , they use ECCN and ITAR (ML) classification and your product will either fall under dual use or munitions list (ML). For EU originating products they use EU classification which is Wassennaar. The USA ECCN codes also translate directly to Wassennaar. One would then apply for the necessary USA or EU export permits in order for those goods to leave those regions.
    The issue of legality is not with having been issued a foreign export permit , it is with marketing , importing , owning or brokering munitions lists products in SA, irrespective of country of origin.
    As the importing country we are governed under Wassenaar and DCAC. For Dual use it is far more lenient and one does not need certificates and local permits , however with ML there are strict laws in place.
    S.A. is a Wassennaar country and Wassenaar Act of 2010 applies to all dual use and munitions list items. Apart from that our DCAC have their own laws around the handling of DU and ML products which anyone in SA dealing, marketing , servicing , training on , brokering, or owning these goods must abide by. This is why I ask if anyone knows of any dual use classified thermal weapon sites as all that I've seen from foreign manufacturers up to now are ML items, meaning traders and buyers must be DCAC registered and have permits for each and every device they handle.
    I don't know if any of you have been through this process but its tedious and painstaking , not to mention the costs if you use a consultant. Dual use classified avoids all these problems hence the quest to find DU classified thermal sights. From what i understand , all thermal weapon sites are ML items if they have a thermal core, weapon mount and reticle. im hoping to find otherwise. Thanks

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    yes i import , but same local laws apply as with other Wassennaar countries

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    Quote Originally Posted by BBT View Post
    I think they're only illegal to buy from the US, not to own here in SA
    they r highly regulated , throughout USA , EU and all Wassennaar countries of which SA is one. If they are ML classified for either wildlife hunting or military , its illegal to possess here without permits.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

    Quote Originally Posted by DstUrges View Post
    I'm confused.
    Your intro said you import them, and this thread now seems to be asking about what brands are legal here.
    yes i import , but same local laws apply as with other Wassennaar countries

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