Looking for Legal Thermal Weapon Sights

[A-R]

sorry i worded it wrong suggesting a firearms control body. since it doesn't fall under CFR , it falls under DCAC who handle licences and permits on behalf of NCACC. Whats needed is an established voice in the industry like a gun owners association who can educate dealers and potential buyers on the subject.

Maybe somewhat of a thread hijack, but most of us are getting seriously fed-up with ever more controls and nanny interference. The chances of someone volunteering to be that nanny are slim.

[curious george]

Realistically,just how many private guys can afford these sights anyway?

[wlek]

Hi All,

Sorry to resurrect this thread but do we have some current information on the legality of thermal weapon sights in South-Africa? I still see Pulsar Thermion's and similar rated thermal scopes (read 50 hz 640 core) being sold by online retailers? Did something change with the classification to dual use since 2018 or are we still not allowed to own thermal weapon sights ?

[janfred]

I am still not convinced that we are not allowed to own it. I have no idea who or what NCACC or DCAC is and why I need to be concerned about them.

[Adoons]

I have 0 idea about the classifications etc. I have bought a cheap made in China PARD NV007 about 3 weeks ago from a dealer. For my needs it is perfect. When taking the time to set it up correctly to get the focus right I can easily spot Rheedbuck vs Blesbuck vs Bushpig vs Cattle to about 200 m in pitch black dark nights. If I buy a higher powered IR torch it would be even better. When doing some reading on the subject I learned that it is possible to build a night vision setup relatively cheap that can see seriously far. A IR torch would be needed, making you highly visible to anyone else with a IR camera type instrument though. The "building / assembling" on your own from different components are making the regulation part a problem for the regulator.

Noted IR is not Thermal, but with the same "build your own" I believe setting up a FLIR behind a scope you might be able to have "highly rated" Thermal sights?

[wlek]

Hi Adoons,

As per my understanding "digital night vision" eg a cmos or ccd camera with high sensitivity and low light capability behind a optical lens is legal in South Africa ( night site , atn x-sight , pulsar digisight and digex , pard nv007 ect. ) The quality and usability will be lower or on par with Gen1 or Gen 2 night vision image intensifier tubes as Gen3 or higher is also not allowed for civilian use in South Africa. IR illumination 850nm or 940nm with latter being less visible with less performance on range and sensitivity on ccd and cmos cams will also improve the capability of digital and Gen 2 image intensifier tubes and as per my understanding again legal to own and use.

Now on to thermal. Thermal cameras are being used everywhere now for covid fever screening and thus I think it is legal to own. Once again not sure if they draw the line at 9hz ( slow lagging image ) or if you are allowed to own thermal cameras with higher eg 30 or 50/60hz hz refresh rates. Building your own Thermal scanning device will be easy ( flir vue 640 with a lcd screen and battery ) but you won't be able to put it behind your scope as glass blocks the heat signature the thermal sensor is suppose to pick up (Lenses for thermal imaging systems are made of materials with low absorption in the IR spectral region) . You can however put the thermal in front of your scope ( clip on thermals is legal to own in germany eg Krypton FXG50) but then you are zooming in on the digital image with your scope and needs alignment and the optical train collimated. Also not sure if "clip on" / scanning devices will be legal to own in South-Africa being 50hz. I think that it comes back to what Phils posted on the Dual Use and MU listed items on the wassenaar list and we need to have some contact or authority within the DCAC to confirm or verify how they rate thermal devices for dual use or Munitions.

If somebody with more knowledge can chip in on the topic it will be appreciated.

[curious george]

Why don't you contact the sellers and explain your concerns to them and then report your findings back to the forum?

Ps:If you believe it's illegal then don't purchase it, mos...

[wlek]

Well like phils said I don't think the sellers are even aware of the classification on these products. But the fact that these devices are getting into the country passing customs without any local permits means that either they are also not aware of the classifications or they just don't care. But if I do pull the trigger on a 60k plus thermal sight I would hate to have it confiscated at the border and thus clarification is needed to see if we have ways around the law to own such devices eg dual use.

***A NOTE TO ALL DEALERS AND PROSPECTIVE BUYERS OF THERMAL WEAPON SIGHTS - IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING ENGAGING IN THE HANDLING OF SUCH PRODUCTS IN ANY WAY, YOU MUST OBTAIN THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE ITEM BEFORE DOING SO AND BE FAMILIAR WITH THE LAWS AROUND THE HANDLING OF SUCH PRODUCTS. IF IT'S ML CLASSIFIED THEN YOU CANNOT TOUCH IT, NOT EVEN SEND OUT A BROCHURE OR ADVERTISE ON THE INTERNET OR ANY PUBLICATION UNLESS YOU HAVE THE NECESSARY PERMITS AND ARE REGISTERED WITH THE CONTROLLING AUTHORITIES. YOUR DEALER MUST PRODUCE A CLASSIFICATION CERTIFICATE IN WRITING AND THEIR PERMIT TO TRADE IN SUCH ITEMS IF THEY ARE ML. IF THEY CAN'T BECAUSE THE GOODS COME FROM CHINA FOR INSTANCE WHO DON'T CLASSIFY, IT STILL HAS TO BE CLASSIFIED LOCALLY BY DCAC TECHNICAL TEAM BEFORE YOU CAN TRADE IN OR OWN IT. OUR LOCAL LAWS APPLY AND NOT THOSE OF COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE TO THE LAW.***