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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
    It is only reasonable to assume that if a company dictates what an employee can have available for personal security outside of their premises due to internal policies they should also be liable for the consequences of those policies.

    Thing is it would be necessary for you to be able to prove that you would have had a gun with you if it weren't for the policies. So letting the company know that their policy would prevent you form having a gun with you and that you will therefore hold them responsible for your safety when in transit. This could extend past just the commute to work and back to also include any length of travel that would include a stop at the workplace.

    I'm not a lawyer. This is how I would ague it. I have come to realise though that law and logic does not always stand on the same side of the fence. Use it do't use it.
    I agree with Beast, if company policy about being armed infringes on your safety even outside its actual premises, can it not be held liable should something happen to you? Company policy is preventing you to from doing something you are legally entitled to do. Is this perhaps something we should ask GOSA to get a legal opinion on? Once something like this happens, you can be sure other companies will enact similar regulations, even use it as a template.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Why not give Martin Hood the gun lawyer a call?
    I have found him to be more than approachable and honestly happy to help.
    At least it would give you a legal precedent to work with.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kola View Post
    I would love to see a legal opinion on this.
    Technically their policy only applies to their premises, and they are not dictating what you are allowed to do outside their premises.

    Lets hope in this case they are reasonable, since in most such cases reason and logic play no role.
    Unfortunately in our PC world it just takes just one zealot at work to stir up a storm around an issue like this.

    We have had it raised a couple of times at work that we should be gun free, safes on premises etc etc. So far it has been fended off on the basis that there is quite sufficient legislation to control firearms in the FCA without making up a whole new set of rules (which will no doubt create a whole raft of unintended consequences of their own).

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
    It is only reasonable to assume that if a company dictates what an employee can have available for personal security outside of their premises due to internal policies they should also be liable for the consequences of those policies.

    Thing is it would be necessary for you to be able to prove that you would have had a gun with you if it weren't for the policies. So letting the company know that their policy would prevent you form having a gun with you and that you will therefore hold them responsible for your safety when in transit. This could extend past just the commute to work and back to also include any length of travel that would include a stop at the workplace.

    I'm not a lawyer. This is how I would ague it. I have come to realise though that law and logic does not always stand on the same side of the fence. Use it do't use it.
    The counter argument to that (and I am just playing devils advocate here) is that if the company does nothing and an employee does come in and shoot up the office, the families of the deceased will sue to company for not taking steps to ensure that there were no firearms at the workplace.
    So playing the numbers, the lawsuit for your one death outside the office would be cheaper than if the gunman in the office killed 2 or more people.

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Theres also the chance that someone can casually walk to the stock room, grab a Stanley knife and start slitting people’s throats. You don’t need competency and a squeaky clean criminal record to do that, but you do need one for an FA.

    Statistically you’re more likely to need an FA commuting between work and home, than you are to be attacked with an FA from a colleague.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    We want to believe in logic, this is not about logic, or common sense...

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    We previously had a similar policy in place. Now as to signing it, our contracts stated that we agree to abide by company policies which may change from time to time without prior written notice.

    Now the policy doesn't exist anymore, or at least I cannot find it. Problem solved on that end.

    At a later stage, we were informed about a colleague being held up on the way to work, and were informed that we are responsible for our safety. By this logic one can reasonably assume that we may do whatever is necessary to ensure this to the best of our abilities - which would include carrying a weapon for the purpose of self defence.
    In the past 6 weeks or so, I know of 4 colleagues who have been hijacked, mugged or otherwise assaulted either on the way to/from work, or whilst performing their duties for the company.
    There are often news articles highlighting hijack/mugging hotspots, and I can place several of these close to our office, as would anyone else, since most offices are close-ish to highways or busy intersections.

    You can use any of these scenarios to write up a motivation for carrying, although as we've seen here, companies may or may not approve thereafter.

    Personally though I'd only make use of the above if I were caught out in any way - don't poke the bear if the bear hasn't poked you.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knoffel View Post
    Personally though I'd only make use of the above if I were caught out in any way - don't poke the bear if the bear hasn't poked you.
    I hear you, but I have a good relationship and record with management thus far, which I do not want to risk unnecessarily that could make things more difficult for me when I might get made. The fact that the policy was formally sent to all employees disregards any future excuse of ignorance/being uninformed that I could use when I am made. From that point onward I will be in a more difficult position than what I am in now, while I now still have the chance to come to an agreement in this matter.

    The "stuff you, I will carry regardless" approach is of course an option, but although it addresses my personal safety issues for the time being, it comes with many more difficulties that can make life unnecessarily difficult. I think a balance must be found in regards to this matter. There are many options that can provide this balance while both parties are satisfied.

  9. #29
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wave.jaco View Post
    I hear you, but I have a good relationship and record with management thus far, which I do not want to risk unnecessarily that could make things more difficult for me when I might get made. The fact that the policy was formally sent to all employees disregards any future excuse of ignorance/being uninformed that I could use when I am made. From that point onward I will be in a more difficult position than what I am in now, while I now still have the chance to come to an agreement in this matter.

    The "stuff you, I will carry regardless" approach is of course an option, but although it addresses my personal safety issues for the time being, it comes with many more difficulties that can make life unnecessarily difficult. I think a balance must be found in regards to this matter. There are many options that can provide this balance while both parties are satisfied.
    No, you’re right, and there’s a lot that has to be considered befire doing either.
    Ultimately either step could be detrimental for your place at the office, and only you can make that final decision.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Company announced firearm policy - what now?

    Is your parking area on company property? If so, a car safe would still be in violation of that policy.

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