Torture

[Analyst]

Yes / no? If/when/how?

This should be fun.

[SSP]

This should be fun.

What the torture or the debate?

Whats the definition of torture for the purpose of this debate. People may have different concepts. I, for instance, consider being forced to watch the home channel torture. Others may not.

[BoerBok]

I, for instance, consider being forced to watch the home channel torture.

+1

Apart from that, I'm keeping quiet on this topic... :-X

[Corné]

It is torture having to sit and listen to my wife's whining about my shooting.... grn1

Give some more parameters to your question.

[Craig]

This should be fun.

What the torture or the debate?

Whats the definition of torture for the purpose of this debate. People may have different concepts. I, for instance, consider being forced to watch the home channel torture. Others may not.

+1

I have the X Factor, then the Strickly come Dancing, then Big Brother, then Dancing on Ice, then something else, then nearly all the same with the US version's md217

We got 2 TV's now! ;D

[Om]

"...just once, I'd like to hear you scream in pain"
"Play some rap music..."
- Bruce Willis in the Last Boy Scout fighting0002

[Analyst]

Sorry, that was very oblique. From the UN: "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions"

[BoerBok]

That clarifies Analyst, thanks.

Hmmm... I tend to think that I play by the rules and obey society's generally accepted norms; however, I would be lying if I say that I did not enjoy hearing our friends in blue moering the ever-lovin' daylights out of the two oukies, that saw fit to relieve me of my car radio & everything else in it, in PE a few years ago.

The end probably justifies the means and the situation dictates our responses to whatever we are faced with, but I would resort to very underhanded tactics if required. I am sure we all will, even more so when it starts getting close to home.

My 2c...

[Corné]

A morally loaded question. If we refer to criminal actions I ask myself the question : Does their immoral actions justify me of acting immoral? The dilemma is where is the line between 'torture' to obtain information and what 'torture' is applied for pure punishment and retribution?

Lets take an example. There is say a gang of thugs of say 5 people. These thugs go around and kill, torture, main, assault and rape. You are able to capture say 2 of them. Is 'torturing' these two with the aim to obtain information about the others as to capture them and thus stopping further killing, torturing, maining, assaulting and raping not acceptable?

Also lets take a case of terrorist acts and for example the 911 case. Would the torture of a person captured and 'tortured' and thus obtaining information that could have prevented the 911 disaster not be accepted?

Does the end result not justify the means? A criminal is disregarding moral standards and should he then not receive the same treatment?

Yes, I know about human dignity and our constitution and No I am not saying that we should go and do it. I am just exploring the question at hand.

My view is that in certain cases it can be justified but the big problem is that where is the line drawn between obtaining information and punishment. Also what if the suspicion is there that there is information and at the end there was not valuable information. Also 'torture' can bring out lies in the the person starts to say what the torturer wants to hear as to make the torture stop.

As I say I could justify it under certain conditions but the slope at which it lies is so slippery that I would say that it could not be justified.

Also you condemn the morals of the captured thug but by going this route what are you doing to your own morals?

It remains a loaded issue.....

[Anwar]

I tend to disagree with Corne. Torture is torture, period. I believe the end does not justify the means.
The problem this approach would have is that who decides what is considered OK to apply torture? It will open the door to seriuos problems. What I consider important might not be what somebody else considers important, besides history has proven that the human race had made many mistakes in judgement and laws. Unfortunately, these mistakes were only identified long afterwards(damage is already done).