Of bolied frogs and things

**BigT** · 10-07-2010, 21:44

I'm a little confused. We often read about boiled frogs and camels noses in tents wrt the gun control movement. In other words how they take a little here take a little there and we lose our rights.

Why then don't we learn from them? I keep reading certain members going bat**** crazy that all licensing is evil etc. Why not take the same approach as the Gun Control people who are viewed as "reasonable" by so many. From a marketing and sales point of view its a more succesful model. Start with small things pushing numeric limits etc rather than the DISMANTLE THE FCA NOW rhetoric. Unless its trying for a moral victory.

Me I prefer a real victory to a moral one every day of the week.

**Craig** · 10-07-2010, 21:55

Good point.

I also got thinking along similar lines when I saw the recent Swiss Shooting Festival and the likes of Coke and McDonalds being sponsors. It's amazing how corporations side with the majorities opinions. Maybe we gun owners should start trying to rebrand ourselves and the perception of firearms.

Just a though...

**BigT** · 10-07-2010, 23:28

To add to this join SAGA. Even if you don't like them it's as a close to a unified voice as we have. Joining them can't hurt your gun rights so get some numbers behind them. Then join GOSA or whoever. I have no time for race based organizations so therefore no time for BGOSA ( this is not a comment by gunsite but only by me. It is not said in any official mod capacity. )

Take a non shooter shooting. Be frikken responsible when you do it. Let then see that it's enjoyable and not some brutal craziness.
IMHO this is the way to boil frogs from our side. Don't be viewed as the raving loons who want everyone to have a gun. Be viewed as people who want reasonable gun ownership. They have gotten guns all over the world with "reasonable" restriction I really think it is tactically the best way to approach this fight.

**Crimefree** · 11-07-2010, 02:17

Originally Posted by BigT

I'm a little confused. We often read about boiled frogs and camels noses in tents wrt the gun control movement. In other words how they take a little here take a little there and we lose our rights.

Why then don't we learn from them? I keep reading certain members going bat**** crazy that all licensing is evil etc. Why not take the same approach as the Gun Control people who are viewed as "reasonable" by so many. From a marketing and sales point of view its a more succesful model. Start with small things pushing numeric limits etc rather than the DISMANTLE THE FCA NOW rhetoric. Unless its trying for a moral victory.

Me I prefer a real victory to a moral one every day of the week.

Let me ask a question that really needs an answer. Why have firearm organisations and firearm owners almost universally failed to make any impact on the work and agenda of gun control?

Boiling frogs is a lesson in sitting complacent and possibly in fear of something - of building a cocoon of protection against what is denied using excuses and lies to oneself. The falsity of comply with the FCA and you will be safe is one such cocoon that has been promoted by many. It denies the purpose of the FCA and that is not in doubt. The preamble is very clear as is the utterances of Ministers and SAPS. What does anyone think the words "only the police and army must have guns" means? Do ANC Ministers say one word that is not policy to the public? If they do they will be held to account for what they have said and told to cease and desist.

There is a lesson in organisation and achieving objectives that firearm organisations need to learn. They have no plans and no long term goals. They appease a process and then go back to sleep BSing themselves they have done the best they can and crowing about victory when there was none.

If you don't know what your bottom line is then you cannot negotiate or hope to win. You do not negotiate when you try to appease. That is admitting defeat and hoping for mercy. Or as Winston Churchill said feeding a crocodile hoping to be eaten last.

"Reasonable" is an argument that is used by us to defeat the objectors on our side and not to defeat gun control.

Gun control is not reasonable. The organisations and advocates will lie and deceive to gain their objective and nothing will be allowed to stand in there way without a fight. They will use every trick in the book and invent their own because they have long term goals and the will to win. What have firearm owners got?

I'll tell you, they have - brains - but most are to busy to use them or pretending there is no need. Just ask the average firearm owner what they are doing to fight gun control and see what I mean. There is good reason for that and it is the our own fault. We tell people to be reasonable when they get annoyed instead of directing them to do something useful like fighting gun control and educating people to not fear guns. To stand up and say enough no more we have tried to be reasonable but that has not worked. It never has.

**nkosi** · 11-07-2010, 02:23

Originally Posted by BigT

To add to this join SAGA. Even if you don't like them it's as a close to a unified voice as we have. Joining them can't hurt your gun rights so get some numbers behind them. Then join GOSA or whoever. I have no time for race based organizations so therefore no time for BGOSA ( this is not a comment by gunsite but only by me. It is not said in any official mod capacity. )

Take a non shooter shooting. Be frikken responsible when you do it. Let then see that it's enjoyable and not some brutal craziness.
IMHO this is the way to boil frogs from our side. Don't be viewed as the raving loons who want everyone to have a gun. Be viewed as people who want reasonable gun ownership. They have gotten guns all over the world with "reasonable" restriction I really think it is tactically the best way to approach this fight.

I agree. Although we all know the FCA is bulls**t, we need to fight it in a way that we are seen as 'reasonable' and often that will mean taking small bites at a time, just like the antis have done to us. Lets boil them for a change.

Big T is spot on the money with taking non shooters shooting - it is, as always, a numbers game. If shooting were really popular and had a large number of followers, politicians and big business etc.would be less inclined to alienate us because of our potential votes and our purchasing power. It is also important to get younger people involved.

Years ago not too many governments pushed gun control too much because so many people were shooters. It was seen as an essential skill that people learned, just like cooking and carpentry. I cannot think of one of my group of friends of 8 that were not taught to shoot by their parents (& we did not live on a farm or in a rural community).

Get new shooters and then get some more. If everyone on the forum manages to get 2 extra shooters involved every year, imagine what we could do. (I have managed one so far this year in SA who is now licenced and have another two newbies who look like they will be joining up soon - one in SA & one in Aus.)

**BigT** · 11-07-2010, 07:17

crimefree you prove my point. Your position appears to be all or nothing. So we end up with nothing! Do the gun control people say let's ban all guns right now every time they make a statment ? No. Yes that what they want but they have a good enough grasps of sales to understand that the best way to sell their concept is a piece at a time.

How to you eat an elephant? One plate at a time. And that's what they are doing and have done around the world. Why not learn a lesson from them. Most of the public are not going to support an end to gun registration tomorow. So instead of telling them how stupid they are all the time for not accepting that rather let them getbused to our side a step at a time.

Think of it like foreplay. Your approach is to phone from the car and say " I'm going to be home in twenty minutes , get started" GFSA are clever enough to whisper sweet nothings give a massage and a little heavy petting before they jump in there. Which works best and which works more than once?

**shooter** · 11-07-2010, 08:17

How would you get something changed in the FCA or any act? Is it even possible to go through "normal" to get the act or any law changed taking into account what the paliament's composition is and who runs the country and what their stated goal is? How long would it take? I'm just thinking now that the circus is being looked at we need to try and get as much done as possible.