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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    ****
    The hypers will give you a 1" group with reasonable certainty at 50 out to about 70 m they gave me cigarette box 20ties groups, will look at my targets and whats up you some groups.
    *****************************
    Just watched the video now, he comes to the same conclusions I did at 100 m - the faster bullets, they seem equal to better at the longer distances

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    *****************************
    Just watched the video now, he comes to the same conclusions I did at 100 m - the faster bullets, they seem equal to better at the longer distances
    Very often yes. However, the wind deflection of the HV bullets is much more than on Subsonics. Often, the range can be measured, but the wind is not so easy. At the longer ranges where wind deflection comes into play, the Subsonics and some SV ammo has the advantage.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    Very often yes. However, the wind deflection of the HV bullets is much more than on Subsonics. Often, the range can be measured, but the wind is not so easy. At the longer ranges where wind deflection comes into play, the Subsonics and some SV ammo has the advantage.
    Please explain. I would have thought that the HV bullets would be affected less, as their flight time is shorter and they are thus exposed to the force of the wind for a shorter period of time.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    Very often yes. However, the wind deflection of the HV bullets is much more than on Subsonics. Often, the range can be measured, but the wind is not so easy. At the longer ranges where wind deflection comes into play, the Subsonics and some SV ammo has the advantage.
    ***************************
    I think you may have over simplified the answer.
    Both factors will come into play. A heavier bullet will be affected less than a lighter one at SAME speed.
    Both bullets starting out at the same velocity will have the heavier one superseding the lighter ones performance at a set and specific point for every velocity combo.
    At hunting distances a higher velocity bullet of same caliber and comparable weights (30 cal at 180 gr/ 155 gr - not like 30 cal 220 gr/ 90)
    At target shooting/ long ranges the heavier bullet will come into its superiority the further down range it goes.
    At 100 m or so the faster bullet will win the competition.



    Quote Originally Posted by TStone View Post
    Please explain. I would have thought that the HV bullets would be affected less, as their flight time is shorter and they are thus exposed to the force of the wind for a shorter period of time.
    ***********************
    I believe you are correct - so does GS Customs and most monolithic manufactures.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    I understand that BC will influence a bullet's wind drift but I do not think that, in the case of .22 lr, there is a significant difference in BC between sub sonic, SV and HV bullets.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    I think you going to have some fun T
    Some days, not silly wind days, just windy I aim about a meter to left of the 130 m gong on the farm.
    There is the house, open ground, a path through some growth and then open ground too target.
    The .22 bullet at longer play with range is very affected by wind.
    The .22 really gives a small scale example of whats happening out there with the big center fires, put a 150 m target up, use a construction site board - the ones they close areas off with. Spray it white, the whole 2.2 x 1.8 and put a tennis ball size red dot on it.
    Just for the hell of it start at 30 m shoot, 5 back 20 m, shoot 5 and so on till 150/200 m, mark each group and then wait for a windy day and do it again. Try it on a gusty day versus a steady wind day and see how the gusty day group opens to half meter.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    As note. Alot of old timer 22lr silhouette shooters believed and said that they found the Swartklip Sub Sonic rounds to be the most accurate. Due to more consistency over the Standard and HV's.

    What I can say is I bought a Sako 22lr Quad about 2 years back. License took forever.

    Any case took to range 3 times now. Biggest improvement in accuracy ive seen. Or rather drastic improvement was when I actually adjusted the factory trigger down to 2 pounds. Which is lowest it will go out of factory. Then YoDave Spring in it that took it down to 1 pound. And the groups at 100m improved incredibly.

    So to me on a 22lr rifle. Get your trigger sorted. If you have a CZ. Also get the YoDave kit. Tikka and Sako alot cheaper and easier to do. But the trigger is your first step to improved accuracy on a 22lr rifle.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman View Post
    ***************************
    I think you may have over simplified the answer.
    Both factors will come into play. A heavier bullet will be affected less than a lighter one at SAME speed.
    Both bullets starting out at the same velocity will have the heavier one superseding the lighter ones performance at a set and specific point for every velocity combo.
    At hunting distances a higher velocity bullet of same caliber and comparable weights (30 cal at 180 gr/ 155 gr - not like 30 cal 220 gr/ 90)
    At target shooting/ long ranges the heavier bullet will come into its superiority the further down range it goes.
    At 100 m or so the faster bullet will win the competition...
    No. Bullet weight is only one factor, in determining the BC. When 2 different bullets have the same BC and MV, they will fly the same, irrespective of weight.
    Only if the heavier bullet has a superior BC will it show less velocity loss or "drop".

    Quote Originally Posted by TStone View Post
    I understand that BC will influence a bullet's wind drift but I do not think that, in the case of .22 lr, there is a significant difference in BC between sub sonic, SV and HV bullets.
    The significant difference is in the aerodynamic drag on the bullet in the subsonic region and the supersonic region (with the same BC). These 2 are vastly different. Then we have the trans-sonic region, which covers the transitional area between the 2. This is another can of worms with lots of variables and unknowns.

    To cut to the bone:
    A subsonic bullet has much less drag and is also affected ("pushed") less by a crosswind (still with the same BC number).
    A supersonic bullet has much more drag and is affected proportionally more by a crosswind (still with the same BC number).

    This is not some weird conspiracy theory. You can go and test it empirically. The only catch is to find a nice and constant cross wind.
    You can also do the wind drift calculations on any ballistic calculator or app. No actual proof, I know, but a good indication of what happens in the real world.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Optimum .22lr barrel length?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-R View Post
    To cut to the bone:
    A subsonic bullet has much less drag and is also affected ("pushed") less by a crosswind (still with the same BC number).
    A supersonic bullet has much more drag and is affected proportionally more by a crosswind (still with the same BC number).

    This is not some weird conspiracy theory. You can go and test it empirically. The only catch is to find a nice and constant cross wind.
    You can also do the wind drift calculations on any ballistic calculator or app. No actual proof, I know, but a good indication of what happens in the real world.
    Thanks.

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