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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorditeCrazy View Post
    all coupled with a fair amount of overpopulation of ele too. I'd love to hunt elephant, it must be quite exhilarating to get up close
    The elephant overpopulation and associated habitat destruction in Botswana goes grossly unmentioned in environmental reporting.

    Because apparently it's better that many thousands of animals (not just elephants) die a horrible death due to malnutrition and starvation, rather than that a few thousand elephants are killed by people with guns (because, like, the horror!) and sustainably utilized.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    The elephant overpopulation and associated habitat destruction in Botswana goes grossly unmentioned in environmental reporting.

    Because apparently it's better that many thousands of animals (not just elephants) die a horrible death due to malnutrition and starvation, rather than that a few thousand elephants are killed by people with guns (because, like, the horror!) and sustainably utilized.
    Yup. Sadly the preservationists don't understand conservation, the entire thing becomes a shit-show and is run with feelings not science. I remember listening to Cleve Cheney a few years back on how SANP started to deteriorate into this mess as they started to take donations for places like the WWF etc. To keep the funds they may not cull and this is where the mess starts as it becomes about money generation and not sustainable environmental management.
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

  3. #13
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    Arrow Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by CorditeCrazy View Post
    all coupled with a fair amount of overpopulation of ele too. I'd love to hunt elephant, it must be quite exhilarating to get up close
    I can remember as a child my father taking me to the railway station when the circus was in town and the Elephant were still in the rail carriages - to feed them buns

    Since that time I have quite a few occasions to get up close to live ( and wild ) elephants

    I knew the people that ran the Elephant and Lion park outside Salisbury ( Harare )

    You do not actually have to shoot one to have this -- get up close experience ...

  4. #14
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    Exclamation Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by CorditeCrazy View Post
    and this is where the mess starts as it becomes about money generation and not sustainable environmental management.
    The problem is HUMAN over-population and the resultant "hunger for land " / habitat degradation
    The ideal answer would be to cull the humans and extend the area available to the wildlife !

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    I can remember as a child my father taking me to the railway station when the circus was in town and the Elephant were still in the rail carriages - to feed them buns

    Since that time I have quite a few occasions to get up close to live ( and wild ) elephants

    I knew the people that ran the Elephant and Lion park outside Salisbury ( Harare )

    You do not actually have to shoot one to have this -- get up close experience ...
    I've done all of that, still want to hunt one
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    The problem is HUMAN over-population and the resultant "hunger for land " / habitat degradation
    The ideal answer would be to cull the humans and extend the area available to the wildlife !
    Botswana, Zim and Zambia are not exactly overpopulated and the areas they have for free roaming game is vast. The land can only carry X number of any species in a natural environment. I don's subscribe to the human removal solution as that is just any humanity, I do believe in sustainable utilization and management of game and the natural environment, that includes looking after the basics such as soil and keeping the animals numbers in check. People have the ability to work around the natural environment - that is why we can thrive where few other animals manage to just survive.
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

  7. #17
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    Arrow Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by CorditeCrazy View Post
    I've done all of that, still want to hunt one
    Ten minutes of excitement and pleasure and a lifetime of regret -- especially when you have to explain to your grandchildren ( when the only elephants are in the museum )
    Otherwise
    Shoot it with a camera

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    Ten minutes of excitement and pleasure and a lifetime of regret -- especially when you have to explain to your grandchildren ( when the only elephants are in the museum )
    Otherwise
    Shoot it with a camera
    Um no, sustainable hunting is what will save this species as well as other species that ele have a dramatic impact over. Here I talk about trees, birds, rodents, small game etc who's habitat is destroyed when the elephant populations grow beyond the carrying capacity of their environment. Either hunting or culling, but hunting brings in revenue that can be pumped back into the local community who then see the game as an asset and not a pest to be eradicated at any opportunity. So no lifetime of regret at all.
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Botswana Elephant hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    The problem is HUMAN over-population and the resultant "hunger for land " / habitat degradation
    The ideal answer would be to cull the humans and extend the area available to the wildlife !
    I'm going to assume that you are being being serious/semi-serious, if so, I hear this a lot from so called enlightened eco-fanatics.

    So if that is the solution, then why don't you lead by example and be the first one to be culled? No? Then you are a hypocrite for even mentioning that something like that should even be considered. Are you more important that anyone else just trying to survive on planet earth? No one asked to be born, but they were.

    And I take it you have committed not to have any children either because you know that would be highly hypocritical of you considering you want humans to be culled but then go and increase the population even more because it doesn't count because I'm somehow special and exempt.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoldierMan View Post
    I'm going to assume that you are being being serious/semi-serious, if so, I hear this a lot from so called enlightened eco-fanatics.

    So if that is the solution, then why don't you lead by example and be the first one to be culled? No? Then you are a hypocrite for even mentioning that something like that should even be considered. Are you more important that anyone else just trying to survive on planet earth? No one asked to be born, but they were.

    And I take it you have committed not to have any children either because you know that would be highly hypocritical of you considering you want humans to be culled but then go and increase the population even more because it doesn't count because I'm somehow special and exempt.
    Yes, well put. I also wanted to say that the “remove the human solution” is fundamentally anti humanity. Humans can thrive in habitats few l animals can just live in.
    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

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