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  1. #11
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by pblaauw View Post
    Erm....?? Anyone that can give formal clarity on this matter?
    Pieter, a press release from Lynette and I is imminent.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  2. #12
    Moderator Skaaphaas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp View Post
    The suspension reasoning is a matter between IDPA and the two suspended members.
    Yeah. You see, doing things behind closed doors while there is clear indication of something untoward happening does not engender much trust in your process.

    On the contrary, statements like the above seem like obfuscation.

    Based on what I’ve seen (yeah, possibly a one-sided version, but whose fault is that?) is that SADPA fucked up royally. Which, given the recent history, isn’t altogether surprising.
    Sent electronically, thus not signed.

  3. #13

    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    I shall not renew my membership with IDPA or SADPA next year. I suspect many will do the same.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  4. #14
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    You neglect to mention that IDPA's actions against Lynette and I were and are unlawful per South African law, SADPA's own constitution, and the formal written legal opinion of SADPA's own advocate.
    Not criticising or taking sides (I know too little), but an honest question. How would SADPA's constitution or South African law impact a decision by IDPA (an American organisation)?

  5. #15
    Moderator Skaaphaas's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Not dissimilar to like MacDonalds USA had to comply with SA laws when they wanted to start franchises here.
    Sent electronically, thus not signed.

  6. #16
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaaphaas View Post
    SADPA has become a bit of a circus.
    Poor leadership and procedurally unfair practices.
    And you can only say that because you aren't a member any longer.
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  7. #17
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Pieter, a press release from Lynette and I is imminent.
    Thanks Paul, much appreciated.

  8. #18
    Moderator SSP's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Unfortunately, any sort of organisation that affords its management with any degree of power or authority tends to attract people who are incapable of properly wielding that power.

    The same is true in schools, churches, governments and anywhere where people gather.

    Those people may tend to be attracted to those sorts of positions because of a sense of vanity or an inherent narcissism or some other malady.

    You need only look at the bullshit "opening speech" at any halfway major match for evidence of this. That is entirely unnecessary in the context of the match and serves only to attract attention to the speaker when in reality no one gives two shits what they have to say and only want to get on with the match. Much like equipment checks where you get told that the person checking your gun can "hear" a modified GLOCK trigger - which, in the context of the rules, is totally irrelevant. The "checker" is only there to wield his "power".
    Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal:
    But I know one thing that never dies,
    the glory of the great dead.
    Havamal

  9. #19
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    And you can only say that because you aren't a member any longer.
    This is a powerful statement and sadly true.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSP View Post
    Unfortunately, any sort of organisation that affords its management with any degree of power or authority tends to attract people who are incapable of properly wielding that power.

    The same is true in schools, churches, governments and anywhere where people gather.

    Those people may tend to be attracted to those sorts of positions because of a sense of vanity or an inherent narcissism or some other malady.

    You need only look at the bullshit "opening speech" at any halfway major match for evidence of this. That is entirely unnecessary in the context of the match and serves only to attract attention to the speaker when in reality no one gives two shits what they have to say and only want to get on with the match. Much like equipment checks where you get told that the person checking your gun can "hear" a modified GLOCK trigger - which, in the context of the rules, is totally irrelevant. The "checker" is only there to wield his "power".
    My agreement meter is maxed.

    The suspension of these members is taking away from the sport in my opinion. Which is the exact opposite of what a suspension should do.
    I have enjoyed IDPA , but i am glad that there is a viable and enjoyable alternative.

  10. #20
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Sorry, but this is going to be a long one...

    Statement of Paul and Lynette Oxley on our unlawful suspension from IDPA and SADPA's unlawful further actions against us.

    Attached to this document you will find the formal legal opinion obtained by SADPA from their own legal Counsel, Advocate HP Van Staden.
    (two points on this opinion before we proceed: Firstly their own opinion agrees with us. Secondly, it is based on false information as supplied by SADPA to the advocate. As the Advocate states the actual contents and details of the claimed emails were never shown to Counsel.)

    Why did this all happen?

    At the SADPA AGM held on 2 March 2019 the association, which is an autonomous registered body under South African law voted to effect certain changes to the way they operated and recognised dedicated activities in terms of their Accredited Association status. The motion passed unanimously.

    On 24 June 2019, Lynette as club chair of Tac SHAC (the largest SADPA club), with the agreement of six other club chairs wrote to the SADPA Exco, calling for a Special General Meeting as there had been no reported progress on the resolution reached more than three months prior. On 28 June 2019 both Lynette and I received a suspension letter from IDPA. There was no proper explanation of the suspension, nor was there any request or opportunity for a defence from us. Of particular note is that all of the 'evidence' quoted by IDPA involved only comments that I had made in private to Vivian Whatley (the IDPA representative in South Africa), and all context had been removed from the remarks quoted so as to make them appear to be combative and rude. Other remarks that I had made on social media were clarifications drawn from the minutes of the AGM of 2 March 2019. NOTHING was alleged to have been said by Lynette!

    It is interesting to note that immediately preceding the call for the SGM (and our summary suspension) Tac SHAC had just hosted our annual Super League, on the 22nd and 23rd of June, which was highly successful, despite Vivian Whatley's attempt to interfere with the running of the match.


    What happened next?


    Lynette and I received the suspension letter on the Friday evening whilst we were preparing to host the Gun Owners South Africa Port Elizabeth Firearms Festival. We were only able to respond the next week once we were back in Johannesburg.

    Since the suspension letter had been directed to us by Kitty Richards from IDPA HQ, and since the suspension letter was presented to us as a fait accompli, we asked one of our club members who is a senior attorney to correspond with IDPA HQ on our behalf.

    Our approaches to IDPA were summarily rebuffed.

    SADPA then removed our access to the SADPA admin system.

    Our attorney wrote to SADPA and advised that SADPA was in breach of South African law which requires procedures to be followed, and that if access was not restored we would seek punitive costs orders against the Exco. Access was restored.

    SADPA then put counsel on brief and acquired the opinion attached which substantially bears out our own version of events.
    As all legal opinion is that SADPA is autonomous and that there is no complaint against Lynette and I, we have been advised to carry on with running our club and hosting and competing in our shoots.

    What has happened since then?

    SADPA has been engaged in a low grade war of attrition against Lynette and I which has included contacting our club members directly to foment rebellion against us and to try to isolate us. We remain eternally grateful to those many club members who have continued to support us and are unswayed by SADPA's devious attempts to undermine us and collapse what was the shining jewel amongst SADPA's clubs.

    Our further investigations into IDPA and their relationship to SADPA have been most illuminating. It turns out that far from being an “Association” (as they like to style themselves), IDPA is a private US-based company. They don't have a constitution and they have no disciplinary code. It seems that a Director decides to do something and it just happens... with no thought to liability or consequence. They seem to operate outside or above the law. What is further of interest is that there is NO LINK between SADPA and IDPA. It appears as if SADPA members have been tricked into paying an annual 'tribute' (as our attorneys describe it) to IDPA.

    By SADPA's own admission (in their mass-mailed circular of 3 September 2019) the SADPA Exco jumps when IDPA tells them to.

    This raises serious governance and control issues when viewed against the backdrop of SADPA's supposed status as an autonomous body governed by its members; a registered Non Profit Company with SARS Public Benefit Organisation status, and SAPS Accredited Association status. I wonder how happy those institutions are that SADPA is controlled from the USA.

    What now?

    Well, despite the law (and all the lawyers, both ours and theirs) being on our side it seems that the renegade SADPA Exco is determined to flaunt their own Constitution and victimise their own members. Not only is SADPA refusing to allow Lynette and I to practice and enjoy our sport, but they are also (again unlawfully) refusing to upload the scores of our club members to the SADPA portal.

    It is clear now that they have no intention to facilitate the SGM – where the Exco's ouster would have been almost assured.

    It is further clear to Tac SHAC that they have no intention to meet their financial commitment to the DMG Nationals which were given to Tac SHAC to host in just over a month's time (they have missed payment deadlines for almost three months now, despite many promises). I will be delighted to be proven wrong.

    What is the future for Tac SHAC Shooting Club?

    Well... we are going to do everything that the SADPA Exco was instructed to do by the members at the AGM. The club is becoming a multi-disciplinary shooting club, with accreditation through at least two Accredited Associations (the old all-the-eggs-in-one-basket thing will NOT bite us or our members again!). We will present and compete in 3 Gun Nation, IPSC, even IDPA (if there are club members who are still interested in dealing with SADPA after this), Steel Challenge, Pins, and essentially anything with a published set of sporting rules. NARFO (think Natshoot Lite) have agreed to accredit and endorse any activities and firearms that our members use in any shooting code that we report activity for. The sky really is the limit!

    Our inaugural 3 Gun Nation match in a few weeks time has already attracted more competitors than any of our monthly DMG shoots have managed, and because it is not limited to SADPA/IDPA about half the field are IPSC shooters. If you're a Natshoot or NARFO member already you will get points for this match.

    Actually... this is all very exciting.

    To all our loyal members and friends out there, thank you for all the support thus far.

    If you feel aggrieved or let down (trust me, we know how THAT feels), please feel free to contact Kitty at IDPA HQ on kitty@IDPA.com, Joyce Wilson on joyce@IDPA.com, and Etienne Supra (the SADPA Exco Chair) admin@SADPA.co.za or etienne.supra@frei.one
    Last edited by Wanderin' Zero; 04-09-2019 at 13:55. Reason: Corrected typos.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

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