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  1. #21
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    And SADPA's advocate's opinion:

    ADVOCATE
    H.P. VAN STADEN
    Member of the South African National Bar Council
    452 General Beyers Street Street
    Pretoria North
    0182
    + 27 82 532 6321
    +27 76 810 4314
    hpvans3@gmail.com
    VOYIATZAKIS ATTORNEYS
    377 Eeufees Street
    Pretoria North
    Dear Sirs
    LEGAL OPINION ON THE STATUS OF THE MEMBERSHIP OF MR PAUL
    OXLEY AND MRS LYNETTE OXLEY FROM THE INTERNATIONAL DEFENSIVE
    PISTOL ASSOCIATION(IDPA) AND THE INFLUENCE ON THE MEMBERSHIP OF
    THEM OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN DEFENSIVE PISTOL SHOOTING
    ASSOCIATION (SADPA)
    I am on brief to consider aspects relating to the termination of membership from one
    organisation and the effect this will have on the continued membership of the
    effected members to another entity which is affiliated to the organisation which
    terminated its membership.
    In casu the following aspects will be addressed:
    1. The implications with regard to the membership of Mr and Mrs Oxley as
    SADPA is affiliated with IDPA and steps to ensure due legal processes are followed.
    2. Request by Mr McLaren to address the SADPA Executive Committee (Exco)
    on behalf of his clients Mr and Mrs Oxley
    The legal opinion is based on documentation supplied by SADPA and on
    confirmation of information as confirmed by the executive committee of SADPA.
    LEGAL OPINION
    SADPA MEMBERSHIP
    To be able to determine justification, it must be taken into account that a decision
    must be both procedural and substantively legal.
    Mr Paul Oxley and Mrs Lynette Oxley had their membership of IDPA terminated due
    to emails that was sent to the Stage Approval Team of IDPA which showed their
    apparent refusal to cooperate with the team, and also it apparently contained
    slanderous and unprofessional comments, the contents and details which were not
    made visible.1.
    The alleged conduct as described in the termination letter appear to be a
    contravention of the rule M 12.6 the Match Director Code of Conduct which read as
    follow “As a representative of IDPA, I will refrain from disparagement or inappropriate
    criticism of IDPA or other shooting sports, their officials, and rules either verbally or
    through social media,”2 note must also be taken that the violation of the code of
    conduct may result in the revocation of a members IDPA membership.
    As both Mr Oxley and Mrs Oxley are safety officers3 they are bound by the safety
    officer code of conduct especially Rule M-15.5 which state “I will not communicate
    with others in a threatening, harassing or abusive manner and read with rule M-
    15.11 that the violation of the code of conduct may result in the revocation of a
    members IDPA membership.
    Since membership of IPDA is voluntary it is within their right of the controlling powers
    of IDPA to revoke membership to the organisation.
    IPDA is an organisation that is situated and domiciled in the United States, the South
    African law do not have jurisdiction to overturn a decision by the IDPA.
    SADPA is registered as a non profit Company, it is governed by South African law,
    and membership is governed by the Constitution of SADPA 4.
    It would appear that despite the termination of the membership of Mr and Mrs Oxley
    from IDPA, nothing in the SADPA Constitution automatically revokes their SADPA
    membership
    Article VIII of the SADPA Constitution deals with the suspension or expulsion of
    members from SADPA, in accordance with the article Mr and Mrs Oxley cannot have
    their membership automatically revoked if they are suspended from the IDPA,
    neither do it address should such an occurrence happen.
    It is stated in Article VIII that the affected members can respond to any allegation
    made against them, this is in line with the audi alteram partem rule in South African
    law.
    1 E-mail from Kitty Richards to Paul Oxley and Lynette Oxley dated 28 June 2019 informing them of their
    termination of their IDPA membership
    2 IDPA Match Administration Rules of the international Defensive Pistol Association, Inc as amended 25 June
    2019
    3 As per Information supplied by the SADPA Exco
    4 The Constitution of the SADPA as on 28 June 2019
    At this stage it cannot be deemed that Mr and Mrs Oxley are affected members as
    they have not been affected by any decision made by SADPA.
    Despite IDPA having had terminated the membership of Mr and Mrs Oxley, they are
    still members of SADPA , as they did not contravene any SADPA Constitutional
    Article.
    REQUEST FROM MR MCLAREN TO ADRESS SADPA ON BEHALF OF HIS
    CLIENTS MR AND MRS OXLEY
    The decision to revoke the membership of Mr and Mrs Oxley from IDPA based on
    communications with the IDPA HQ and with Mr Whatley as the International Point of
    Contact Africa Representative of IDPA and whatsapp and/or messages send to him
    in that capacity cannot be deemed to be private messages, but rather
    communication when it is related to his appointment from IDPA and associated
    functions/coordination.
    The sender of whatsapp messages or other social media platforms should take
    thereof and that sending messages to an official relating to an official post held by
    such a member cannot be deemed to be private communication 5
    Care should also be taken that user of social media do not make defamatorily
    accusations /remarks as such comments in South African Law can be punished 6
    The request by Mr Mclaren7 to address IDPA on the issues of suspension is within
    the rights of his client, however it must be kept in mind SADPA cannot over turn
    decisions by IDPA , as SADPA did not suspend his clients, and they are still
    members of SADPA.
    It is within the rights of Mr Maclaren to request an answer if the Committee of
    SADPA has addressed a complaint to IDPA.
    It was indicated by the Exco, no complaint was addressed from SADPA Exco to the
    IDPA, which would warrant that the termination of the membership of Mr and Mrs
    Oxley from IDPA.8
    CONCLUSION
    Mr and Mrs Oxley in line with procedural and substantive legal requirements remain
    members of SADPA, despite having had their membership terminated from IDPA.
    Mr Mclaren do have the right to address SADPA on behalf of his clients, however I
    am of the opinion that the issue of the termination of the membership of Mr and Mrs
    5 Social Media inscription apparently made by Mr Oxley
    6 Isparta v Ricter 2013 6 SA 529 (GP)
    7 Email from Mr Mclaren dated 2 July 2019
    8 As confirmed on the meeting held with the SADPA Exco.
    Oxley by IDPA be addressed with IDPA. It is suggested that it be done through
    representations as to have the membership reinstated by IDPA
    Should the said action through the IDPA Avenue not be successful, it can be looked
    into if there will be any effect on Mr and Mrs Oxley due to their membership being
    terminated by IDPA in line with the Fire Arms Control Act.9
    H.P. VAN STADEN
    Advocate of the High Court of South Africa
    9 Act
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

  2. #22
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Being clueless in this - what actually happened?

  3. #23

    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxxyc View Post
    Being clueless in this - what actually happened?
    Yip, no disciplinary, no chance for us to defend ourselves. I have lived and breathed SADPA and IDPA for over 10 years. Unfortunately this is the whole sad story. We have literally done nothing wrong.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    I got a CR Speed rig for my P09 for free a while ago (buddy upgraded and he uses a Shadow, P09 fits perfectly). Now I get to use it

  5. #25
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Jip my last year with IDPA and SADPA, moving over to IPSC

  6. #26
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    According to what I can make out from that writing, Paul and Lynette harassed or threatened someone, but there is no proof of that. So I really can't figure out what happened.

  7. #27

    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxxyc View Post
    According to what I can make out from that writing, Paul and Lynette harassed or threatened someone, but there is no proof of that. So I really can't figure out what happened.
    There is no evidence or proof....otherwise there would have been a disciplinary.

  8. #28
    User 414gates's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    My sons and I I gave up IDPA after it was dictated we have to register directly with IDPA to fall in line with international norms, then found I was forced by SADPA to take club membership as well, which is not in line with international norms.

    Why irritate me twice by first by quoting international norms then dictate which norms don't apply to me. I don't mind paying, I mind being irritated.

    I choose which sport to spend my money, I'm not hostage to any association that is lacking in common sense.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by HellKitty View Post
    There is no evidence or proof....otherwise there would have been a disciplinary.
    Heh. Would love to see their response.

  10. #30
    User Paul's Avatar
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    Default Re: SADPA Circular Letter No. 06 (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxxyc View Post
    According to what I can make out from that writing, Paul and Lynette harassed or threatened someone, but there is no proof of that. So I really can't figure out what happened.
    I have for some time been corresponding in a very amicable manner with Vivian Whatley (I can forward the entire Whatsapp conversation for the last few years). Lynette and I were instrumental in getting Vivian into the position as IPOC, and when he resigned earlier this year Lynette was the one who lobbied Kitty Richards to get Vivian to change his mind.

    My mails with him have literally been friendly and offhand. I have warned him about developing situations and offered him advice... for which he appeared thankful.

    So... it seems he tripped a switch and decided to redact my Whatsapp remarks to him and compile them into a format which makes it seem as if I am carping about IDPA. Apart from the entirely correct clarifications I gave regarding the autonomy of SADPA and the rules under which the DMG Nationals were to be shot, that is it.

    At first I thought it was all a joke.
    "Always remember to pillage before you burn"
    Unknown Barbarian

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