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  1. #1
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    Default Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Hi All,

    As I get older, I must say that I am starting to struggle to focus on and be able to use my iron sights as well as I could do when I was younger... As such, I am starting to look at red dot optics and am currently investigating the pros and cons of them... and, yes, I know there are a lot of options!!

    By way of background, I am an active and competitive sport shooter (mainly IDPA at this stage, but have done a fair amount of Steel Challenge and will probably also be doing some IPSC etc in the future). I am also a firm proponent of EDC... always, so the RDS needs to work from that perspective too.

    On the basis of my research, I have narrowed the realistic choices down to the following (I have included approximate pricing in US$ for the sake of consistency):--

    (a) Trijicon RMR (the gold standard, as I understand it... a full metal jacked RDS which passed the Sage Dynamics testing with flying colours, but which is rather pricey. Great glass, slightly smaller window, 2x adjustment buttons for brightness, good clear and audible clicks when adjusting the point of aim etc. There is however the issue of needing to remove the RDS from its mounting on the FA in order to replace the battery... which I don't like the sound of) -- price around $499-$530;

    (b) Vortex Venom (better pricing, does not seem to have been tested by Sage Dynamics and is probably not as full metal jacket. Slightly bigger window and glass not as good as with (a) above. You can change the battery from the top and while the RDS is still mounted on the FA. Apparently the brightness adjustments are ok and adjusting the point of aim is not that clear/audible... plus Vortex has its no BS lifetime guarantee) -- $230;

    (c) Leopold DeltaPoint Pro (not as hard wearing -- failed the Sage Dynamics testing, which is a negative for me. One adjustment button, so not ideal (you need to scroll through all of the other settings first). Bigger window, but glass not as good as with (a) above. Seems to sit slightly higher on the FA than options (a) or (b). Top/side loading battery port so this can be done while the RDS is still mounted on the FA) -- $400.


    I have also heard about a number of other RDS but have discounted them for a number of different reasons. That said, there are also the following RDS which appear to be ok or, in some cases, good:--

    (d) Holosun HS407C (I think this is the model);

    (e) Shield RMS -- failed the Sage Dynamics tests, has auto brightness which is less than ideal, has a side-loading battery tray which is good. The adjustment of the point of aim is apparently a bit fiddly and not idea (no clear/audible clicks) -- $400.

    Do any of you who use RDS for the above stated applications have particular opinions/recommendations on the above and can you recommend one specific RDS over the others? If so, please let me have some thoughts and input on why you selected that RDS, how long you have been using it and the approximate cost thereof.

    Also (and I know that this is also a contentious issue), at this stage I am thinking of going for a red dot with an MOA of around 3.25 or 3.0 (or thereabouts) (I am aware that certain respected shooting instructors recommend a 6 MOA red dot). Is this a wise size of red dot for the above applications and, if so, why? If not, why not?

    Any and all thoughts, comments and input (provided that you have actual knowledge of the above) would be gratefully received.

    TIA...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    BigT will be able to give you good advice on this...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Tayls. Luckily we have options for failing eyes now...

    I have been shooting with an optic for a year now.

    started on the Holowsun - great brightness and glass - lasted about 1000 rounds and lost zero. Lots of people are really happy with theirs. When you have a good one it's great.

    Replaced it with a Vortex Venom. worked for all the time that i had it on the gun about 4000 rounds took it off to fit another optic. I Like Vortex and their backup. Liked the venom but had 2 things that i did not like. First is the sharp edges and corners. I'm a woodworker and I think may hands are a bit more used to wear but the corners of the Venom are quote Venomous. I took a file to it and it was much better. I used the optic to rack the slide. Not much space on a G19 slide left if you have an optic on there... The other was that it wasn't bright enough. shooting IPSC Champs in Boland in March I lost the dot on it's brightest setting (yes I changed the battery) in the bright sunlight. This eventually made me move to another optic.

    Aimpoint ACRO. This thing is bright enough. It's been on my gun since they got here around April/May It's had a good 8000+ rounds on it without any fault. I can rack the slide with this without a worry of damaging anything. This will stay on the G19 for the foreseeable future and soon become my EDC, Once my Shadow is licensed. The only down side is the window size, it could be bigger but with the construction it makes sense. Although actually better than the Venom in my opinion (screen height is more important to me than width as you pick up the dot on elevation...)

    For your purposes The ACRO should be on your list and rather high up. The main reason for that is the enclosed construction. One of my major concerns with an EDC optic is that some dust/fluff land on the emitter and effectively kills your optic untill you clean it off. With the ACRO rain, shine or dust-storm your emitter is sealed inside the optic. cleaning the front and back cover glass is also super easy and gives you the full clear window to use. I have seen optics that the edges to the window close to the frame looks like fake snow frosted shop windows in Christmas season.

    Obviously the question is what am I putting on the shadow? Trijikon SRO. Haven't shot with it but the top 3 places at the last champs had it on there. It's got a nice size window with clear glass. Had a look through it on some guns and it's definately a contender. And with their history it's a solid option. It's not enclosed though, but this is a gaming gun not EDC.

    the others I have played with but not really a first hand experience to give an objective opinion.

    Conclusions? You get what you pay for. Get the best optic you can afford and train with it. Competing with an optic gun is a lot of fun, until it isn't.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Embrace first of all that whatever you buy will eventually break, so make sure you have spares.

    The four most common optics I saw at EHC last month were , in no particular order , The SRO , The Acro The DeltaPoint Pro and the Shield.

    I don't think there is a better carry optic than the Acro and the C1 is bloody well priced. Great durability and switching. Smallish lens, better than the RMR though and not all tinted and fishbowly, and less batter life. But easy batteries to change.

    The SRO has an amazing size lens and great switching. Not as durable as the ACRO but fine for gaming and concealed as opposed to duty carry.

    The Deltapoint has a great lens, and holds up pretty well(that said Ive killed three of them) Switching isnt ideal. My longets lasting one did about 10k the quickest ive seen one go is 2k. That one came back from repair and broke again in under a thouand

    The Shields hold up pretty well really you just need to be careful how you treat the lens. I would try stick with the 8moa there , especially for carry where it will be more visible in asymmetrical lighting conditions.

    the Holosuns are holding up bloody well and are super cheap. I know a good few people who I respect who've had great results with them. I've got 5 odd K rounds and a drop on a 507 with zero issues at all. I do wish they made a 5-8 moa version, though lots of people like the small dot.


    The Shield and Holosun are great ways to dip a toe into the water and see how the dot life suits you. And are cost effective enough to make back ups less problematic.


    FWIW I ordered a 8moa Shield this morning, and the Acro is not coming off my G17 for love or money.

    In the last two years I have had 5 or 6 optics fail on me. Make sure you have a spare on hand.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Might I suggest that you head on over to the Sage Dynamics YouTube channel and check out all the reviews on pistol-mounted red dots. He really has a wealth of information to share.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceOfficer View Post
    Might I suggest that you head on over to the Sage Dynamics YouTube channel and check out all the reviews on pistol-mounted red dots. He really has a wealth of information to share.
    He does, but I wouldn't use it as your only source of info.

    If you're discounting everything that failed the drop from shoulder height onto concrete you will miss out on some good options, especially for gaming.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Thanks very much for your thoughts and input, Beast and Big T.

    I will be sure to do some more research and investigate the Trijicon SRO, the Aimpoint ACRO (although I do find this RDS dog-ugly and seemingly too large for EDC purposes... perhaps I am wrong with this), the Shield and the Holosun.

    Out of interest which company/ies in Pta and surrounds will hold reasonable stock of the above (plus the others I have mentioned) for me to see and check out?

    Finally, out of interest, why are none of you using the Trijicon RMR? I thought that this was really well regarded...?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Please see my further questions within the body of you reply, below.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    The Shields -- I would try stick with the 8moa there , especially for carry where it will be more visible in asymmetrical lighting conditions. ***An MOA as big as that. Does this still allow you to make precise shots at slightly longer distances?

    the Holosuns -- I do wish they made a 5-8 moa version, though lots of people like the small dot. ***Which MOA do you have with this RDS?

    The Shield and Holosun are great ways to dip a toe into the water and see how the dot life suits you. And are cost effective enough to make back ups less problematic. ***Who stocks these in/near to Pta/Jhb please?

    FWIW I ordered a 8moa Shield this morning, and the Acro is not coming off my G17 for love or money. ***Good to know. I was actually looking to pimp my G17, Gen 4 out for the CO division in IDPA.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    Also, what happens when the RDS dies? Are some of these covered under a manufacturer's guarantee (like the Vortex line) or is it then just tough tacky?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Red Dot Optics for sport shooting & possible EDC (recommendations & input requested)

    In Pretoria Chat to hailstorm for the Acro, MRST for the Shield and ECM for the MRO.

    The RMR has a tiny little blue tinted lens. They can be shot well, but its less ideal.

    With regards your other questions

    A 8Moa dot is still smaller than your front sight is, and you perceive it to shake less than the 4MOA

    The Holosun currently comes with a 2 moa dot on the 407. And user changeable choice of 2moa dot , 2 moa dot with 32 moa circle and 32 moa circle on the 507. That reticle works well for some, doesn't work for me at all.

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