PH / Guide Rifle and Calibre?

[marshy]

Hi Guys

Asking this on behalf of my cousin who is currently studying to become a game ranger. We've both tried to google information, but direct or even approximate answeys seem to be few and far between.

What he'd like to know is, what would the most suitable calibre be for guiding? (He's like his own rifle to grow to love and trust). There's a lot of discussion out there on the 458win, 458 Lott, 416 Rigby, etc etc, but he's looking for some advice on a good all purpose working guide rifle and calibre?

Also, the cost of ammo would come into the equation, and he's already keen to start reloading, so that could also possibly be an answer? Otherwise what do you guys think?

On a final note, he's be looking for a working rifle, and from the reviews, the CZ 550 is a great place to start? Any opinions on this? or do you think it's a worthwhile option for him to get a custom rifle built?

Thanks again

Marshy

[FrankH]

See the latest Magnum has a write up regarding the .416 Rigby , which is my favourite.
Haven't had a chance to read it yet.

[shark_za]

PH are quite different to guides.
Some PH's I know use .300 win mags because they never go after dangerous game.

Guides working in high end game reserves that have elephant have a different requirement, same for the PH going after dangerous game.
All the real guides I know are basically on a budget and settled for the CZ-550 in a lengthened 458 like the Lott or 458-3 inch.

Some have the basic .458 Win and are happy but the more gun nut mates favour the 3-inch.

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------

Just to add one guy had hassles working for one reserve (forget the name) because they would not allow handloaded ammo.

[Scuba Steve]

depends on what you will be hunting - if i were a PH and guiding then : for small game, I would like a 30-06 (duiker and the sort) - plains game i would have a .375 (blesbuck to eland) and for dangerous game i would definately have the .416 rigby, tapered case, not likely to run into a situation where a round can get stuck and have dangerous game coming at you.

[MyLani]

For Stopping Power, the 458 or 458 Lott wins, but the penetration of a 416 Rigby is Incredible!
For versatility the 416 wins hands down.
The loaded ammo for the 416 is horrendously expensive, so buy cases and get loading.
I sold my .375 for the .416 rigby and haven't looked back since.
A friend (also a PH) has the 416 rigby in the CZ550 and has had no problems at all

[umshiniwam]

Hi,

the .416 would be my favourite choice based on nostalgia (and leaving very little to be desired in performacne on game) but factory ammunition is very expensive, probably in the region of almost R100 per round. I suspect that omponents would also be more expensive than those for .458 Win/Lott.

The practical choice would be a .458 Win. or if he wants a more "oomph" then a .458 Lott which is a .375 H&H case slightly blown out, necked up to .458" and shortened (from 2.85") to 2.8".
This makes the Lott's case .3" longer than the Winchester's and allows for between 100 & 200 fps increased muzzle velocity.
As far as I understand it, the .458 3" is similar to the Lott i.e. a blown out and necked up .375 H&H case) and is 2.99" in length.

Another great thumper is the .450 Ackley Magnum, which is a .375 H&H case blown out with parallel wells and a slight shoulder.

.458 Win cartridges can safely be fire in rifles chambered for the Lott, 3" or Ackley Magnum, which is nice to know if ammunition supplyy becomes problematic.

A friend of mine who was a ranger at Sabi Sabi and Singita tells me that they only used CZ 550 rifles rechambered for the .458 3" Express, but I am sure that a Lott would be sufficient.
Either way, he will not make a mistake to buy a .458 Win. CZ 550 and he can then have it rechambered to whichever one he chooses.

[marshy]

Thanks for the in put guys! Will print out and pass it on! Does 458-3 inch ammo exist? Also, just browsed the Sabi Rifles website, and came across the 458 Sabi? www.sabirifles.co.za/458sabi
Any thoughts?

[shark_za]

No factory loads exist but PMP made a run of cases and should still be able to supply.

http://www.458express.com/

[Bushboy]

I am in the industry and can give some pertinent advice. The regulations as laid down by the Field guides association of SA and recognized by all major parks as best practice is: Minimum calibre.375 h&H mag loaded with minimum 286gr monolithic solid. Softs are not recomended. If you are required to practice regularly, ammo cost may become prohibitive with some more exotic calibres. (read here 404, 416 etc etc). Most lodges have either 375 or 458 win mag and some have 458 lott. Most lodges provide ammo for training, but wont provide for anything other than the calibres they use. (I certainly wont, my lodge riflea are 375 but 2 of my rangers use 458lott. I pay a portion of the projectile cost, powder and primers. He needs to subsidise the projectiles and his own brass). With these rifles they are used for charge stopping, intantly. The ONLY way to achieve this guaranteed is through instant incapacitation of the CNS and this can only be done through CNS shots, ie brain or spine (and even spinal shots need to be preferably forward or the shoulders). There fore, the only thing that matters is penetration and ability to punch through heavy bone. To me 458 win mag is not as good a performer in this department but the lott is better. In the several cases in my park where guides had to shoot game, (in all but 1 case elephant) most were done with 375 and the "good shot" had instant results. There is some confusion about whether a guide can use his rifle for work purposes. My reading of the act suggests its fine but some lodges or DFO's might take a completely different view. As for rifle makes, the CZ 550 or 602 are perfect for this work. Would I buy and carry a 416? absolutely but expensive for shooting 20 to 30rnds every month. Also consider carry ammo. Our reserve mandates that all carry ammo must be factory ammo. I know my reloads are just as good but rules are rules, and impossible to police. We always carry solids and softs are only used in training. Even if you are following up on lion (softs are recomended from hunting perspective) on foot we still use solids because we have an encounter with buffalo or rhino or very likely elephant.

[marshy]

Shark_za, would i be right to assume that the 458-3 inch is aka the 458 Express?
I read on www.458express.com/ that NGA produces factory ammo?

Bushboy, pm inbound!