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  1. #21

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    If you want an AK look to Russia. If you want an AR then America. Even the cheap AR rifles have perfectly forged uppers and lowers. The Chinese are rough. I have not personally used a DPMS rifle but have examined a few and could see no issues. Finish appeared as good as any other AR I have ever used. I did put a complete DPMS bolt group into one of my rifles after a broken bolt and it has functioned flawlessly for at least a thousand rounds if not more since.The Windham rifles that Hailstorm stocks appear to have a very good reputation.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    I would look into the Windham weaponary option, if I’m not mistaken they are a subsidiary of Rock River Arms that is very well respected?

    Forget the DM4 until it has proven itself, that is years away imho.

  3. #23
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    Feb 2012
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    Pretoria
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    3,327

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    What's also interesting about the whole AR availability, is that the brands we look at locally as being "preferred" are lower down on the list in the US. For example look at the comments about DPMS that side, and you don't blame them because they have access to brands like BCM.There was an interesting post I can't recall where, they detail breakdown the M&P sport and show how they manage to get it to that price point vs the higher end models. For the average sport shooter locally I don't think it really makes much of a difference.

  4. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antlion View Post
    What's also interesting about the whole AR availability, is that the brands we look at locally as being "preferred" are lower down on the list in the US. For example look at the comments about DPMS that side, and you don't blame them because they have access to brands like BCM.There was an interesting post I can't recall where, they detail breakdown the M&P sport and show how they manage to get it to that price point vs the higher end models. For the average sport shooter locally I don't think it really makes much of a difference.
    A lot of the so called top brands are no better quality they are just better at marketing. They might put a fancy looking rail on or some other lipstick but at the end of the day they are the same,utilizing parts from similar suppliers, heck I have a fancy name brand rifle that has improperly half cut M4 feed ramps.Unless they supply the world armies ie FN or Colt they are not subject to any external quality standards.

  5. #25
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    Feb 2009
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    1,854

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    Quote Originally Posted by Antlion View Post
    What's also interesting about the whole AR availability, is that the brands we look at locally as being "preferred" are lower down on the list in the US. For example look at the comments about DPMS that side, and you don't blame them because they have access to brands like BCM. For the average sport shooter locally I don't think it really makes much of a difference.
    The cost/numbers comparison is just different here. We also have the upper class rifles but fewer people that buy them. Just like many in the USA also buy entry level rifles these are the rifles that sell more in SA ... just by looking at availability and making some assumptions.

    The list of preferred rifles in SA should not be that different but the budget options gets discussed more because you want to find out what value for money you are getting (exactly what FNBROWING points towards?).

    This is my opinion.

  6. #26
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    Feb 2012
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    Pretoria
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    3,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FNBROWNING View Post
    A lot of the so called top brands are no better quality they are just better at marketing. They might put a fancy looking rail on or some other lipstick but at the end of the day they are the same,utilizing parts from similar suppliers, heck I have a fancy name brand rifle that has improperly half cut M4 feed ramps.Unless they supply the world armies ie FN or Colt they are not subject to any external quality standards.
    I do see your point.The whole "milspec" aspect comes to mind. Though the comparison as far as I remember between the top brands and what they call "commercial grade" was not cosmetic, but showed differences in smaller things , staking, buffers,bolt carrier key, etc. Again, I don't see it making a difference to us nor would most of us be so critical as we don't really see brands like KAC, Hodge Defense , to directly compare.

  7. #27
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    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    117

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    With regard to the DM4...

    From experience with mine, it is a fine weapon. I have fired just under 2000 rounds through it, still a relatively “young round count”. Bought at the end of 2018.

    It is accurate, it shoots just under 1MOA with “cheap” factory S&B ammo and has cut 5 shot groups under 0.7MOA with reloads done on my progressive press, no fancy weighing brass and all that jazz. I have also never experienced any “ar-15 pattern” issues attributed to the gun or the steel “DM4” magazines I use with it, such as double feeds, ripped casings on extraction etc.

    What I like about it:

    The barrel is a heavy 3 step profile, albeit weightier, I have never been a fan of the government cut or pencil barrel profile. The hand guard nut is big and solid, acts as an efficient heat sink, I oil my barrel with Balistol, always, and never get that “fog” so many attribute to oiling a barrel before dumping some freedom.

    The gas system is mid-length and based on the fact that I have not had any malfunctions with a multitude of different loads and new ammo brands, I would say that the gas port has been correctly specced to match the dwell time of an 18” barrel on a mid-length system. The recoil impulse is soft and I run a “lighter than normal” DPM buffer.

    There is no play between the upper and lower, you cant just pop out your pins willy nilly you need to use a cartridge tip and force, no need for an “accuwedge”. This really “grates my carrot” considering the price of this pattern of rifle in SA, and I still have not played with a budget “American made” AR-clone that does not have this wobble present.

    I like the fact that it came with furniture, free float rail (albeit keymod so pica-tinny strip to put your Magpul), decent clone grip, LP gas block which is removable and kept in place with grub screws and a great Aero lower receiver.

    1:9 Twist suits my shooting as I don't often venture away from 55 grain bullets, it is laser beam accurate on a diet of these.

    What I don’t like:

    Barrel says .223 REM, upper receiver says 223 and 556. Which one...

    I hate the wretched castle nut on the buffer tube, surely we have progressed beyond having to scuff your threads when removing this?? This could be me and is a very common castle nut.

    The charging handle does not clear the clone stock when in position 1-3 on the tube extension, why?? I think my particular stock with the cheek comb was a copy of the Israeli one designed for the Galil ACE not an AR clone.

    lastly, the negativity which surrounds this brand. Many many times I have felt the look of distain when handing over my license for ammo, shortly followed by the “we don't sell these cuz...” or “does it even work” etc.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvyant View Post
    With regard to the DM4...

    From experience with mine, it is a fine weapon. I have fired just under 2000 rounds through it, still a relatively “young round count”. Bought at the end of 2018.

    It is accurate, it shoots just under 1MOA with “cheap” factory S&B ammo and has cut 5 shot groups under 0.7MOA with reloads done on my progressive press, no fancy weighing brass and all that jazz. I have also never experienced any “ar-15 pattern” issues attributed to the gun or the steel “DM4” magazines I use with it, such as double feeds, ripped casings on extraction etc.

    What I like about it:

    The barrel is a heavy 3 step profile, albeit weightier, I have never been a fan of the government cut or pencil barrel profile. The hand guard nut is big and solid, acts as an efficient heat sink, I oil my barrel with Balistol, always, and never get that “fog” so many attribute to oiling a barrel before dumping some freedom.

    The gas system is mid-length and based on the fact that I have not had any malfunctions with a multitude of different loads and new ammo brands, I would say that the gas port has been correctly specced to match the dwell time of an 18” barrel on a mid-length system. The recoil impulse is soft and I run a “lighter than normal” DPM buffer.

    There is no play between the upper and lower, you cant just pop out your pins willy nilly you need to use a cartridge tip and force, no need for an “accuwedge”. This really “grates my carrot” considering the price of this pattern of rifle in SA, and I still have not played with a budget “American made” AR-clone that does not have this wobble present.

    I like the fact that it came with furniture, free float rail (albeit keymod so pica-tinny strip to put your Magpul), decent clone grip, LP gas block which is removable and kept in place with grub screws and a great Aero lower receiver.

    1:9 Twist suits my shooting as I don't often venture away from 55 grain bullets, it is laser beam accurate on a diet of these.

    What I don’t like:

    Barrel says .223 REM, upper receiver says 223 and 556. Which one...

    I hate the wretched castle nut on the buffer tube, surely we have progressed beyond having to scuff your threads when removing this?? This could be me and is a very common castle nut.

    The charging handle does not clear the clone stock when in position 1-3 on the tube extension, why?? I think my particular stock with the cheek comb was a copy of the Israeli one designed for the Galil ACE not an AR clone.

    lastly, the negativity which surrounds this brand. Many many times I have felt the look of distain when handing over my license for ammo, shortly followed by the “we don't sell these cuz...” or “does it even work” etc.
    How does your DM4 handle 5.56 nato surplus?

  9. #29
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    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Age
    33
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    117

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    I have never tried it. The fact that my barrel does not state 5.56 Nato (as mentioned above) makes me wary, it has not been a problem for me as I haven't had the opportunity to cost-benefit from shooting surplus military stuff. The mainstay of my shooting are my reloads, I only shoot new ammo when my brass gets old and I need new brass for reloading.

  10. #30
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    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Age
    34
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Looking at an AR

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvyant View Post
    With regard to the DM4...

    From experience with mine, it is a fine weapon. I have fired just under 2000 rounds through it, still a relatively “young round count”. Bought at the end of 2018.

    It is accurate, it shoots just under 1MOA with “cheap” factory S&B ammo and has cut 5 shot groups under 0.7MOA with reloads done on my progressive press, no fancy weighing brass and all that jazz. I have also never experienced any “ar-15 pattern” issues attributed to the gun or the steel “DM4” magazines I use with it, such as double feeds, ripped casings on extraction etc.

    What I like about it:

    The barrel is a heavy 3 step profile, albeit weightier, I have never been a fan of the government cut or pencil barrel profile. The hand guard nut is big and solid, acts as an efficient heat sink, I oil my barrel with Balistol, always, and never get that “fog” so many attribute to oiling a barrel before dumping some freedom.

    The gas system is mid-length and based on the fact that I have not had any malfunctions with a multitude of different loads and new ammo brands, I would say that the gas port has been correctly specced to match the dwell time of an 18” barrel on a mid-length system. The recoil impulse is soft and I run a “lighter than normal” DPM buffer.

    There is no play between the upper and lower, you cant just pop out your pins willy nilly you need to use a cartridge tip and force, no need for an “accuwedge”. This really “grates my carrot” considering the price of this pattern of rifle in SA, and I still have not played with a budget “American made” AR-clone that does not have this wobble present.

    I like the fact that it came with furniture, free float rail (albeit keymod so pica-tinny strip to put your Magpul), decent clone grip, LP gas block which is removable and kept in place with grub screws and a great Aero lower receiver.

    1:9 Twist suits my shooting as I don't often venture away from 55 grain bullets, it is laser beam accurate on a diet of these.

    What I don’t like:

    Barrel says .223 REM, upper receiver says 223 and 556. Which one...

    I hate the wretched castle nut on the buffer tube, surely we have progressed beyond having to scuff your threads when removing this?? This could be me and is a very common castle nut.

    The charging handle does not clear the clone stock when in position 1-3 on the tube extension, why?? I think my particular stock with the cheek comb was a copy of the Israeli one designed for the Galil ACE not an AR clone.

    lastly, the negativity which surrounds this brand. Many many times I have felt the look of distain when handing over my license for ammo, shortly followed by the “we don't sell these cuz...” or “does it even work” etc.

    Always appreciate real world feedback, Thanks!

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