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  1. #1
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    Default The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    Pardon the pun, but for over 20 years, I buckled on a double action revolver along with my pants every working day of my life, and most off days as well. I like a top tier DA revolver and always will, and what the revolver once could do, it is still capable of doing today. The issue is whether or not the DA revolver fills a serious role as a South African self defense handgun, and on that, the opinions are mixed.

    Before the firearms terminology became cluttered with terms like ‘safe action’ or LEM, etc. the old meaning of ‘Single Action’ and ‘Double Action’ was based upon what the trigger of the handgun did. If it simply released a manually cocked hammer, it was considered a ‘single action’, but if it was capable of both cocking AND releasing the hammer, it was considered a ‘double action’ trigger, and for many decades these terms were known and understood by all experienced handgun shooters. Traditional single action (from here on known as SA) revolvers were usually of the western style Colt .45 so well represented in cowboy movies of bygone days…and enjoying a renaissance with the SASS or ‘Cowboy Action’ shooters today. Double Action (DA) revolvers were represented by the old pre war Smith & Wesson M&P or the Colt Official Police, all usually in caliber .38 Special. Later, the .357 Magnum cartridge became popular and both S&W and Colt brought out DA revolvers designed for this higher velocity version of the .38 Special. (1/10th inch longer case length and much more chamber pressure)



    Without getting into too much depth, let me say that there were DA revolvers built for all sorts of older, low pressure rounds, including .44-40, .44 Special and .45 Colt calibers but all were large and heavy. It was the .38 Special and ,357 that captured the lions share of the market…then as well as now. For years, Colt was the ‘go to’ revolver for law enforcement work, but after WWII, Smith & Wesson came up with a brilliant marketing idea…sell guns cheaper than Colt, AND train officers in armorer work so they could repair and maintain the guns locally. They had already captured the prestige contract with the FBI…mostly by giving free guns away…so it was not difficult to wean other agencies away and over to the extremely reliable (and simpler to work on) M&P.

    The ‘Roaring 30’s’ had accustomed people to seeing photos of FBI agents with Winchester shotguns, Thompson submachineguns and Smith & Wesson revolvers, so after WWII Colt was left by the wayside as S&W became quickly the #1 name in police and SD revolvers. They continued to cater to the law enforcement and civilian defense markets by offering smaller, lighter revolvers such as the little ‘Chief’s Special’ which debuted in 1950 and, in different form, is still very popular today. Taurus, a Brazilian company, bought some old S&W machinery and has produced many DA revolvers which are semi-copies of the S&W. They are not quite of the same quality as the S&Ws but usually do work well. There are a great many of these in SA today. Ruger also began making what many believe to be the toughest DA revolvers ever built and captured some of the LE market with their ‘Security Six’ and later the GP100 and SP 101 models.



    This brief history may be a bit boring but it is needed to set the stage for what came after…namely decades of U.S. cops and civilian shooters who believed (some still do) that the DA revolver was more reliable than the semi auto pistol. As we shall see, that may or may not be true. The rest of this will be confined to use of double action revolvers only, as the single action models are simply not well suited for defense use in a modern world.

    The ‘upside’ of the DA revolver is the fact that while all springs can be at rest, a loaded revolver may be fired by only a long, relatively heavy pull on the trigger. Also, should that cartridge be deficient, a second pull will bring up a fresh round of ammunition under the hammer. This can go on until the weapon is empty…usually for 5 or 6 shots. No external safety, no ‘half loaded’ condition, no magazine(s) to lose or misplace, and simple to understand, the DA revolver can fire any bullet design that can be loaded into its chambers (also called charge holes by some). It can and will fire even if pressed hard into the body of an adversary…a tactic that may not allow an auto loader to fire in the same circumstances…may be fired from inside a pocket or purse (especially the ‘hammerless’ models), and, at the upper levels, can handle cartridges with higher chamber pressures than can auto pistols of comparable size. In short, the modern, DA revolver is not as bad a choice for self defense as many might have you believe…at least not in the hands of a competent shooter. There is, however, one caveat. The DA revolver’s ammunition capacity.

    I was privileged to know and shoot with the great Jim Cirillo of the New York City Police Department’s ‘Stake Out Unit’ fame for a few years. Jimmy was no braggart but he was serious about training young cops and he did not mind talking in general about his exploits. SOU guys would often carry three or even four revolvers and usually one team member had either a shotgun or M1 Carbine as well. Their tactic was to wait until the robbers had the money in hand and had made the mental’ shift’ from ‘confrontation’ mode to ‘getaway’ and then confront them. This, as you might guess, lead to some spectacular gunfights. Jimmy said that if the fight was ended with the first 5-6 shots, the best shooter would usually win, but if things went beyond that, ‘firepower’ began to matter more and more. After auto pistols were banned by NYPD brass in the early days of the Unit, the answer to ‘more firepower’ was multiple revolvers. Keep in mind that Jimmy was a world class PPC competition shooter and NYPD Firearms Instructor before he signed on with the SOU, and he credited those experiences with keeping him alive more than once.



    This was not exactly a new concept, since during the U.S. Civil War, Confederate cavalrymen used to carry 4 to 6 revolvers into battle…which was itself a holdover from the old days of sail when sailors and pirates both would do the same with flintlock pistols, shooting their pistols dry before going over to the cutlass or tomahawk/ short axe. All well and good IF one has the gear and is in a situation where you are able to carry multiple pistols, but what if one SD pistol is all you are allowed and all you can manage to carry on your person? Enter the ‘speed loader’ (sometimes also called ‘quick loader’)



    I suppose the ‘original’ speed loader was a second cylinder, pre loaded, for (usually) the old Remington cap and ball revolvers. The Remington worked better with this system than did the Colt of the time because its’ cylinder was held in by a pin rather than a wedge as was the Colt. There was also a wooden speed loader device designed for the very early DA revolvers which never caught on, and…of course…the use of ‘moon clips’ for some break-top and swing out cylinder revolvers such as the Webley or the S&W M1917, etc. but HKS is credited with bringing to market the first commercially successful modern design as we know them today.

    Having used many different makes and models of speed loaders over the years, I use and prefer the HKS for one simple reason…extreme reliability. There are models available that are a bit faster to use, but none exhibit the reliability of the HKS design and none will take the beating that the HKS models will without losing their cartridge load. However, speed loaders must be designed for the specific revolver you are using in order to work correctly, and there must be no grip material in the path of the ‘barrel’ of the loader to interfere with loading. They also take practice to use under less than ideal conditions (in the dark, for instance) and they depend upon gravity as well as relatively clean chambers to work correctly. Still, if you need to get a DA revolver reloaded in a hurry they are the way to go.



    Those who seriously dedicate themselves to use of the DA revolver also have a few more ‘tricks of the trade’ they use, but these people do not represent the ‘average’ home owner or flat dweller or SD handgun carrier, and most will admit that fact. As with the auto pistol, most malfunctions with the DA revolver are due either to bad ammunition or user error, and contrary to what some say, the DA revolver in inexperienced hands CAN malfunction. Failure to allow the trigger to fully return between shots can create a condition whereby the cylinder is rotated but the hammer is not picked up and the pistol will not fire, but most common is probably failure to correctly eject the fired shell casings. If the weapon is held incorrectly during ejection (which, of course, is manual) it is possible for a fired case to get trapped under the ejector ‘star’, which essentially puts the gun out of action in a quick, fast breaking fight. Yes, it can be cleared but not quickly. Small ‘snub nosed’ revolvers…of which there would appear to be a ton in SA…may not always fully eject empties due to their shorter ejector rod and if not, the old cases must be pulled out by hand…one more reason to keep the weapon clean.

    Speed loaders, while very useful, are not so easy to carry concealed as are spare magazines, and a couple in the pocket can make one appear to be smuggling potatoes, not to mention being uncomfortable. Still, given the 5 or 6 shot ammo load, and the possibility of multiple adversaries, spare ammunition is an absolute requirement for the revolver if it is the primary SD handgun. The small revolvers…usually in caliber .38 Special…are often recommended for and used by females, but they may not be the best weapon for this use. Recoil is ‘brisk’ to say the least, especially if modern +P JHP rounds are used (as they should be) and trigger pulls are heavy, leading to quick shooter fatigue during practice, and practice is a necessity if more than the original 5 or 6 rounds may be fired. If larger stocks (grips) are used, that can help but the compactness of the snubby is then lost. Since one big reason these little guns are recommended for females is that most will not shoot or practice often, they become, in effect, a 5 shot ‘derringer’ in many situations for them…not the best option in my humble opinion.



    So, am I recommending the DA revolver as a SD handgun? Not for ‘casual shooters’ and not for South Africa…at least not for a primary SD handgun. They are great as a backup gun or maybe secreted in the home as a ‘last ditch’ defense weapon, and better than a harsh word and a stern look if one is popping down to the store for a couple of items, but in general I think the modern auto pistol is the better SD weapon, and yes, that includes female users IF they will practice once in a while. If not, well, I will admit that I gave one to my own mother, who…at age 86 now…is not about to go to the range and who lives in a boringly quiet neighborhood in a small town not in South Africa where the last big crime in the neighborhood was a stolen bicycle several months ago. She has shot the gun (probably 10-12 years ago) and knows how to use it, and it gives her great comfort at night, but I know it is just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I doubt she even knows where the spare ammunition is any more…the speed loader is not with the gun and when asked about it she said ‘It’s around here somewhere’…sigh.

    So, to sum it up, the DA revolver does have a place in SD work in South Africa I think, but that place is mostly specialized and in a general sense, it is not the tactical or strategic equal of a high quality auto pistol. If you want to practice enough, the full size DA revolvers can come very close, but there are very few Jerry Miculeks in this world, and full sized revolvers are both more difficult to conceal and more difficult to reach proficiency with than short trigger autos. There is a great deal more involved with staying alive in a very dangerous world than guns or marksmanship…in fact, in many circumstances these are secondary issues…but once the shooting starts, if the incident is still going on after those first, critical, 5 or 6 shots, you just might find yourself questioning the choice of a revolver.

    Stay Safe!

    By ikor
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
    -Winston Churchill

    GunSite South Africa
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  2. #2

    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    Ikor,

    I would say that this is a good summary of the revolver and its place in the SD game.

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    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    Well done ikor


    Nicely written article, the best thing is that both pro and cons are well presented.


    cheers

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    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    I still love a revolver and mis my mod.19. I even used it for hunting and carried it religiously. My main reason for going to a pistol is firepower. The .40 is in my opinion just as effective as the 357,is lighter,reloads faster,caries better in a IWB holster and it is lighter

  5. #5

    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    Which 40 is lighter than which 357? I agree that a pistol carries 'better' and is faster to reload and IMO is the better choice but I will bring you some 40's that weights about a the same as a load of bricks and has so many protruding parts that at the end of the day you will be begging for a 357.

    Also I would say that a good 9x19 bullet in +P or +P+ is just as good as a 357 Magnum.

    Also it is not a 40 that carries better than a 357 but rather a pistol designed for everyday carry that carries better than a revolver with the same in mind but this also is subjective as you get some nice lightweight revolvers that can ride quite comfortable in a jacket / coat pocket the whole day without problems(and if the hammer spur is removed and it is a DA only, can be shot from the pocket) (ignoring the fact that it must be worn in a holster in SA for a moment or two).

    If I make a extrapolation from your post, I would have to say that you consider the "carry-ability" of a 40 better than say a 9x19 or a 45ACP...does the 40 thus have certain magic attached to it that enables this?

    I am not knocking the 357 Magnum as a cartridge nor the 40S&W but why would you say is (in your opinion) the 40S&W better than the 357 Magnum for Self Defence?

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    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    my adp is lighter than the m 19 that i had. The 40 has larger mag count than the 357, it has a larger bullet and the 40 fits my small hands beter than a 45 high cap. Dont like 9mm, i have seen a garden fork armed braker take a 9mm fmj center mass without any effect, yes i know a proper load would have helped but still

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    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    Try to remember that all handgun bullets are crap and to expect any attacker to take multiple well placed rounds to cease their attack.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    Unfortunately handguns do not have a good reputation as 'manstoppers' especially if you add FMJ's to the recipe. The exact same shot with a 38SPL, 357MAG, 357SIG, 9x21, 38 super, 40S&W, 45ACP with the same type of ammo, could most properly have given rise to the same result.

    Which 40 fits your hand better than a high cap 45? If you were to take a G17 (9x19), G22 (40S&W), G37 (45GAP), G21 (45ACP) and a G31 (357SIG), all of them will basically have the same dimensions and would either fit your hand or not. However should you take the G22 (40S&W) and it fits your hand and go and compare that to full house Para in 40S&W, the Para might not fit your hand although both are 40S&W. It is more of a question of which design will fit your hand and then looking at the pro's and cons of the different calibers that is offered in that design that fits your hand.

    hjk

    I think that this thread has been Hijacked enough

  9. #9

    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    I think it's the perfect handgun for people who don't like looking after guns and want to carry(like Ikor's mum). Leave it in a handbag or carry it around for 10 years and just pull the trigger to make it go bang if you're in trouble. Just keep pulling the trigger if you have a stoppage. No racking of slides for people who find that difficult. And a buddy who makes his dad carry a 38 snubby, is happy. His dad pulled the gun and fired 3 shots during an armed robbery. He can't aim but the other guys didn't know that, they just fled.
    happy0065 happy0065 happy0065
    I am happy if people will carry something, anything, for the day they need it

  10. #10

    Default Re: The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

    I'm happy that your buddies Dad had a good out come to his encounter but never forget that you are responsible for every bullet that comes out of your barrel! If he'd shot an innocent bystander then he would still be in the poo :P

    Regardless of what type of gun you carry, be it revolver or pistol, you must train and practise to use it effectively. Too often I see people at our range who have had a gun for 20 odd years but have maybe fired 10 rounds through it and they are very surprised when they can't hit a target at 7m, can barely pull the trigger or see the sights never mind load or unload it correctly and then they tell me that this is their SD gun confused0068

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