The role of the revolver as a self defense handgun - By ikor

**ArnoG26** · 20-02-2011, 08:56

Originally Posted by wthang

You know what Big T - We understand that you promote Glock (Bernard Agencies) and Training because it is your bread and butter.
I completely understand that but besides that! This site will never be what it could! pity!!!! Do you need to ask me why? ( That is directed not at you but at all the people that read and post on this site)

WTH? There are lots of people that recommend Glock. It is even common sense. Currently there are two brands in SA that make total sense. S&W and Glock. Both have excellent back up service and maintenance is cheap. H&K is awesome but expensive. Training? training is flippen crucial. We live in one of the most violent countries in the world. This site is dedicated to help people survive. Give them info of what to do and where to go. And who to train with. So what is wrong with this site?

I don't know what is wrong with this site? You know the saying: If you don't like it don't let the door . . .

Maybe you should go to www.imagodandithinkicanshootthebestandnobodyistell ingmeshit.com

**BigT** · 20-02-2011, 09:10

One of those things that is always amusing on the errornet, guys who can't resist an oppertunity to take a dig and then want free advice on pm.

**farmer-el** · 20-02-2011, 09:14

Until a bit of fat is trimmed off the constitution and the FCA and we are allowed to by law and accepted by society to carry an AR or LM, a sidearm and a shotgun this argument will continue. There are to many variables to form a specific factual based opinion. That descision rests with the person who is to use the weapon after he/she has considered the facts. In the early '90's I lived in a small EC town and carried my Z88 open on my side with 3 mags on my belt - for the times and place it was acceptable and alot of people did it. In '93 I moved to CT. Whole different ball game. At the time I weighed about 65kg and there was no way for me to properly conceal the gun. I bought a Taurus 65 snubbie and carried it every day without anyone being the wiser. Today I have the luxury of using the 9mm on the farm - where I have a greater chance of being attacked by "multiple" attackers and when I'm in town the snubbie goes with. Irrespective of what you carry the common denominator in all the views is training. Firearm choice is a personal choice - I remember a time when a wonder 9 was a man's gun and a woman carried a snubbie - what BS! Buy what you think is relevent to you and what you will CARRY/HAVE WITH YOU if the need arises. Also, I would like to see actual stats of attacks carried out in SA on everyday citizens, not CIT robberries, police action, drive-by drug shootings etc. I would like to know number of attackers, number shots fired by them, number shots fired by defenders and the outcome - I think that info at least would solve the qty of ammo needed. Also, until you have used a FA to defend yourself multiple times in multiple scenarios your views are opinions and should not be peddled as facts. My views at least.

DS · 20-02-2011, 09:50

Originally Posted by 414gates

Wether the revolvers of 1910 were manstoppers or not, is debatable.

Wether the revolvers of today are manstoppers or not, is also debatable.

Everything is debatable - some things however have been hashed out and could save a lot of debating.

You can debate if 5 or 6 rounds are enough ( be it the max you have or before you need to reload) or you can read stats/info on home invasions in SA and read what members here have experienced iro violent confrontations with multiple attackers and read what experts say about the average shooters ability/chances to hit an assaillant with a terminal shot every time he pulls the trigger under stressful situations.

You can debate if a certain caliber (revolver or pistol) is gtg for SD use or you can read the very valuable and current information that Doc G Roberts shares with whomever feels the need to learn about these matters.

**ArnoG26** · 20-02-2011, 09:50

Originally Posted by farmer-el

Until a bit of fat is trimmed off the constitution and the FCA and we are allowed to by law and accepted by society to carry an AR or LM, a sidearm and a shotgun this argument will continue. There are to many variables to form a specific factual based opinion. That descision rests with the person who is to use the weapon after he/she has considered the facts. In the early '90's I lived in a small EC town and carried my Z88 open on my side with 3 mags on my belt - for the times and place it was acceptable and alot of people did it. In '93 I moved to CT. Whole different ball game. At the time I weighed about 65kg and there was no way for me to properly conceal the gun. I bought a Taurus 65 snubbie and carried it every day without anyone being the wiser. Today I have the luxury of using the 9mm on the farm - where I have a greater chance of being attacked by "multiple" attackers and when I'm in town the snubbie goes with. Irrespective of what you carry the common denominator in all the views is training. Firearm choice is a personal choice - I remember a time when a wonder 9 was a man's gun and a woman carried a snubbie - what BS! Buy what you think is relevent to you and what you will CARRY/HAVE WITH YOU if the need arises. Also, I would like to see actual stats of attacks carried out in SA on everyday citizens, not CIT robberries, police action, drive-by drug shootings etc. I would like to know number of attackers, number shots fired by them, number shots fired by defenders and the outcome - I think that info at least would solve the qty of ammo needed. Also, until you have used a FA to defend yourself multiple times in multiple scenarios your views are opinions and should not be peddled as facts. My views at least.

I think if you read www.beeld.com you will find plenty stats. The guys that blew up the ATM's was between 15-20 guys all armed with LM's/R's and AK's confirmed by various news papers and I even had a chat with a police captain. He also said that the police are outgunned with gangs like these. Home invasions, farm murders 5 - 6 guys. It is basically common sense. Cash in transit heist 2-3 cars all armed with AK's. Hell my last carjack in 2008. Double cab bakkie and a 5 series BMW. Two guys in the bakkie with AK's and two guys jumping out of the BMW one had a Z88/Berreta the other I couldn't make out the pistol. There was two guys still sitting in the BMW and at least 3-4 guys total in the bakkie. Most of the above info you can get in the paper. So make up your own mind what you carry.

**Wanderin' Zero** · 20-02-2011, 11:12

Originally Posted by ArnoG26

Maybe you should go to www.imagodandithinkicanshootthebestandnobodyistell ingmeshit.com

Hey Arno----the bl**dy link doesn't work....

This subject is so well worn out

. Does anyone even care debate it anymore?

**414gates** · 20-02-2011, 15:03

SD carry, home invasions and armed bank-robber gang attacks are not related.

SD implies a weapon on your person when you're out and about.

Defending against home invasions requires slightly more than 18 gazzillion rounds in one peashooter.

Armed gangs robbing banks are not on the SD menu, not even theoretically.

The suitablility of a revolver for self-defence is not about securing Fort Knox or Rambo-against-Gang antics.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------

Originally Posted by ArnoG26

Two guys in the bakkie with AK's and two guys jumping out of the BMW one had a Z88/Berreta the other I couldn't make out the pistol. There was two guys still sitting in the BMW and at least 3-4 guys total in the bakkie.

In your case, if you had threatened with any weapon, even thrown hand-grenades, you would probably have been killed. These scenarios are not justification for greater firepower because no amount of firepower by one man would have changed the outcome.

**ArnoG26** · 20-02-2011, 15:41

Originally Posted by 414gates

SD carry, home invasions and armed bank-robber gang attacks are not related.

SD implies a weapon on your person when you're out and about.

Defending against home invasions requires slightly more than 18 gazzillion rounds in one peashooter.

Armed gangs robbing banks are not on the SD menu, not even theoretically.

The suitablility of a revolver for self-defence is not about securing Fort Knox or Rambo-against-Gang antics.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------

In your case, if you had threatened with any weapon, even thrown hand-grenades, you would probably have been killed. These scenarios are not justification for greater firepower because no amount of firepower by one man would have changed the outcome.

The point isn't about me surviving the carjacking. I gave a general answer about number of attackers in various crimes. The point I'm making is that in SA the odds you are facing is extreme. With a revolver you will be at a bigger disadvantage. More attackers in general means you need more bullets. A full size pistol will be more to your advantage than a revolver. All the advantages are in the above mentioned posts. It is common sense. If you think 5 or 6 bullets is enough then cool. Your decision. The average man on the street, coach potato shooting a 100 rounds a year with his wheel gun will def not do a reload with a revolver efficiently (I'm not talking about a guy with Ross's skill). Rather get a pistol with 15 and you have a quick 15 if you run out. That gives you 30 vs 6 and a dodgy reload under stress.

**BigT** · 20-02-2011, 15:55

If one suffers from the surrender mentality one shouldn't bother to carry.

Armed gangs rob places. Sometimes one may find oneself in one of these places. Personally if people start getting shot I'm not going to watch.

As for the home invasion example many home invasions will start with the gang ambushing you when you arrive or are leaving home. So your carry gun is the one you all have with you.

414 do you everyday without fail no matter what get heavier artillery out the safe whenever you are home? If you run on for 15 minutes to you get the artillery out? If not every second your home there's a good chance that your carry gun is the one you will have handy to fight off a home invasion.

It looks like the way to argue for the revolver is to pretend the only attack on will ever face is a single non dedicated mugger. Ignore reality at your peril.

**farmer-el** · 20-02-2011, 17:55

This debate could go in circles for years with no real conclusion. I'll always be a "fence sitter" with the view, carry what you're comfortable with and what you'll have with you. Most importantly - train. How many people remember the St Jame's attack where a certain Charl Van Wyk returned fire with a .38 snubbie on 4 APLA cadres, wounding one and ending an already deadly assault?