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  1. #1
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    Default Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    Good Day

    I am inheriting some rifles that comes from my great grandfather, and I am keen to get the correct identification on them, as well as any information on them. I will post a second thread for the Shotgun

    The rifle pictured below is said to have been used for hunting jackals off horseback. As far as we know, it is a .38 calibre (not .38sp). It is a single shot rifle with a falling block action and internal hammer. There are no company name anywhere on the rifle, and I have been unable to find information from the proof marks.

    It is registered as a .38 cal Parker-Hale rifle, but I have searched extensively, but could not find any information on this rifle.












  2. #2
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    It could be a rook rifle, designed for shooting at short range, and the calibre could be obsolete. You would probably need to cast the chamber to determine the calibre.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    That almost looks like a Martini-Henry Cadet rifle. Or may have started life as one. I could be wrong

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    Proof marks are Belgian so it probably isn't a Parker Hale.

    Do a Google search on the term "Garden Gun" and you'll probably start finding stuff. It might be rimfire - you'll probably have to strip it further to see because it's a bit difficult to see the firing pin given the way the action is built. Other wise, if a .38 cartridge case can chamber, put in a fired one (NB: NOT A LIVE CARTRIDGE) and see if the firing pin makes a visible mark anywhere on the head when you pull the trigger.

    Looks like a loose copy of a Martini Henry type action but there were a few "variations & interpretations" on that action from Belgium. Garden guns also used a variety of other action types (also look up "Flobert action") but all were meant to despatch pests such as rats and crows in the garden and fired low powered cartridges. A jackal might be pushing it, unless you were pretty close. Some were smoothbore to cope with both shotshells and bullets and others were rifled.

    Many guns at the budget end of the market were made in a cottage industry scenario where there were a bunch of people in a loose association making guns together. Generally there would be one guy eg making barrels, another eg making actions, or some of the parts thereof, another making stocks and somebody else assembling everything. Parts had to be hand fitted so you'd have to be quite lucky to get parts from one firearm to fit another apparently identical one.

    Same advice as for your shotgun, it's probably best suited to being a deactivated wall hanger & a great reminder of your heritage.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    As far as I know, the calibre were confirmed by a Gunsmith, but the same guy identified it as a Parker-Hale. When i have access to it again, I will see if I can dismantle it further to get more details on the mechanism etc. I thought it could be fun for target shooting, but will not attempt a life round before taking it to a reliable gunsmith for thorough inspection and confirmation of calibre etc. It is however likely to become a display piece. I would just have loved to be able to know the full story behind this weapon, but this one is most likely not from a traceable lineage.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    If you deactivate either, please deactivate self at same time. They are old beautiful and history, once deactivated they are pieces of metal, as good as a replica caste in a plastic factory.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    AndreMake contact with South African Arms And Ammunition Collectors Association - Gauteng Chapter. They get together at the war museum (under normal circumstances), check facebook. someone will know something or know someone who knows someone who knows. Don't deactivate unless patently unsafe.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    Should it be a rimfire, maybe then de activation might be feasible. Should it be a center fire, I would not de activate it. You shoule then be able to get a case of some sorts that will fit, even after some modification, and figure out a safe load. Maybe load with black powder even?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    Thanks for the leads and different perspectives!

    It is certainly not something that I will make a hasty decision about, and I will certainly also take both weapons to a gunsmith or two for inspection and opinions. Their potential monetary value is of no use to me as I have no intention of selling them. These were working guns, which is evident from the general condition, and from the stories that have been handed down along with them.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Help with vintage Rifle Identification

    I know that some cap-and-ball revolvers were converted to fire primed cases, and some rimfire revolvers were converted to fire primed cases as well.

    Therefore, if necessary, it should be able to convert this rifle to fire boxer primed cases.

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