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Thread: Decent Gunsmith

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    Is one allowed to ( legally) do gun-smithing type work on a weapon ? ( even ones own )

    What happens if one knows someone with advanced CNC machines that can do the work but is not a gunsmith ?

    I was under the impression that one had to be a properly registered / licensed gunsmith to work on a weapon ?

    I am also under the impression that there are people doing gun-smithing work that are not properly qualified ?
    Is it still possible to be properly qualified as a gunsmith? I heard that the trade testing facility had closed down?

    It is a grey area as far as I know. There are certain thing that definitely need to be done by a gunsmith, and others that should be, and some that are open.
    All barrel work should be done by a gunsmith.
    If charging for work, you probably have to be a registered gunsmith.
    To keep someones gun to work on it, you have to be a registered gunsmith.
    Manufacturing a registered part - you have to be a manufacturer.
    Manufacturing an accessory? - Who knows.
    Installing accessories? - once again, Who knows.
    Swapping out stocks etc? Do it at home, but technically it is still working on a gun.
    Swapping out springs? most do it at home, but you could start arguing here - the guy at the gunshop counter that installs the springs that you just bought is not a gunsmith.
    Making your own springs like I do? Who knows...

    I work on my own guns, within my abilities. For everything else, there are gunsmiths.

    Anyway, apologies to the OP if this has derailed the topic, but please let me know if you get your 10-22 sorted, as you can see I have more than a mild curiosity in it :)

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Sect 59 FCA reads a follows:

    "59. Prohibition of certain work.
    —No person may, without being the holder of a gunsmith’s licence or being registered as an apprentice to such holder—
    (a)
    alter the mechanism of a firearm so as to enable the discharging of more than one shot with a single depression of the trigger;
    (b)
    alter the calibre of a firearm;
    (c)
    alter the barrel length of a firearm;
    (d)
    alter or remove the serial number or any other identifying mark of a firearm; or
    (e)
    perform such other work as may be prescribed."
    No other "work" has been prescribed, so it is only the above jobs that can only be done by a gunsmith and no one else.
    Any other work can be performed by anyone capable or incapable.
    Any other work done by someone else on the weapon would require you to be present when it is done, that's my take. A gunsmith can store the weapon for you and work on it at his convenience without you there. You could give your mate permission to store it for you, if he has his own firearm and safe. Only the licence holder is allowed to remove it from that safe and "use" it, whatever that means. I presume it means "use" it for the purpose for which it is intended, i.e. shoot it, so possibly he could remove it and fix it without you being there, seeing that he's not going to shoot it.
    If it's a part of the firearm you can remove, (i.e not a firearm itself- barrel; frame or receiver, or a firearm part as defined) then he can work on it without you being there, and he won't have to store the firearm : there's no problem, anyone can work on it.
    In all cases, as long as you are with your mate with the CNC machine and have your licence with you, he can do anything except the stuff mentioned above in the act.

  3. #13
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    Question Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodrage View Post

    Sect 59 FCA reads a follows:

    "59. Prohibition of certain work.
    —No person may, without being the holder of a gunsmith’s licence or being registered as an apprentice to such holder—
    (a)
    alter the mechanism of a firearm so as to enable the discharging of more than one shot with a single depression of the trigger;
    (b)
    alter the calibre of a firearm;
    (c)
    alter the barrel length of a firearm;
    (d)
    alter or remove the serial number or any other identifying mark of a firearm; or
    (e)
    perform such other work as may be prescribed."
    No other "work" has been prescribed, so it is only the above jobs that can only be done by a gunsmith and no one else.
    Any other work can be performed by anyone capable or incapable.
    Any other work done by someone else on the weapon would require you to be present when it is done, that's my take. A gunsmith can store the weapon for you and work on it at his convenience without you there. You could give your mate permission to store it for you, if he has his own firearm and safe. Only the licence holder is allowed to remove it from that safe and "use" it, whatever that means. I presume it means "use" it for the purpose for which it is intended, i.e. shoot it, so possibly he could remove it and fix it without you being there, seeing that he's not going to shoot it.
    If it's a part of the firearm you can remove, (i.e not a firearm itself- barrel; frame or receiver, or a firearm part as defined) then he can work on it without you being there, and he won't have to store the firearm : there's no problem, anyone can work on it.
    In all cases, as long as you are with your mate with the CNC machine and have your licence with you, he can do anything except the stuff mentioned above in the act.
    Thanks for the great info
    At the risk of further deviation

    In the case of d)

    A rifle is taken to the gunsmith for a barrel replacement
    The cartridge chambering remains the same as on the license.

    The old barrel is scrapped but the serial number -- as per the license ( matching the action ) is transferred to the new barrel -- BY THE GUNSMITH
    Everything matches up nicely NO change

    Does this still need to be reported / re-licensed ?

  4. #14

    Default Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    Thanks for the great info
    At the risk of further deviation

    In the case of d)

    A rifle is taken to the gunsmith for a barrel replacement
    The cartridge chambering remains the same as on the license.

    The old barrel is scrapped but the serial number -- as per the license ( matching the action ) is transferred to the new barrel -- BY THE GUNSMITH
    Everything matches up nicely NO change

    Does this still need to be reported / re-licensed ?
    I am scared to answer this....because I recall your history, but here goes anyway:

    How did the gunsmith get said barrel? Was it not on a register with a serial number? If old barrel is "scrapped" then action number (if there is one) is different to barrel number....check your license (if you have one) there are places for entry of all these deets, and they do not have to be the same.

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    Question Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    I am scared to answer this....because I recall your history, but here goes anyway:

    How did the gunsmith get said barrel? Was it not on a register with a serial number? If old barrel is "scrapped" then action number (if there is one) is different to barrel number....check your license (if you have one) there are places for entry of all these deets, and they do not have to be the same.
    Thanks for reply
    Ok
    I was under the impression that receiver / bolt / barrel all had to have the same serial number ?

    Barrels have to be on a register with serial numbers -- which are cumulative if you change / add a barrel ?

    IF I understand correctly barrel makers in the US ( and Europe ) do not stamp serial numbers on brand new barrels ?
    ergo
    A barrel obtained from such a manufacturer will not have a serial number ?

  6. #16
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    Question Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    How did the gunsmith get said barrel? Was it not on a register with a serial number? If old barrel is "scrapped" then action number (if there is one) is different to barrel number....check your license (if you have one) there are places for entry of all these deets, and they do not have to be the same.
    What I was implying is that the new barrel ( and other details ) would be as they ARE on the issued license
    Made so by the -- GUNSMITH

    What has actually changed ?
    The cartridge for which the license was issued is EXACTLY the same !

    Unless there is some weird kind of paranoia going on here -- which I do not understand ?

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    Thanks for reply
    Ok
    I was under the impression that receiver / bolt / barrel all had to have the same serial number ?

    Barrels have to be on a register with serial numbers -- which are cumulative if you change / add a barrel ?

    IF I understand correctly barrel makers in the US ( and Europe ) do not stamp serial numbers on brand new barrels ?
    ergo
    A barrel obtained from such a manufacturer will not have a serial number ?
    All barrels come with a serial number. If you look on your licence card there is space for a barrel, receiver and frame serial numbers. You cannot legally import a barrel without a serial number. If it does not have one, one must be assigned by the CFR before you or the gunsmith is allowed to take possession.

    The below is what I was told a few years ago. Not sure if the procedure remains the same.

    You first have to apply for a new barrel as component. When applying for a new barrel/barrel replacement, the gunsmith has to report on why the barrel need to be replaced. You won't get permission for replacement without it. After replacement, the old barrel need to go to SAPS ballistics just to check there is no crime committed with it. Then you need to apply for a new license. That is why it is normally much faster just to buy a new rifle than to rebarrel.

    So the frame and/or receiver serial number remains the same, the barrel serial number changes.

    If anyone has updated info, I would be delighted to hear it.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    What I was implying is that the new barrel ( and other details ) would be as they ARE on the issued license
    Made so by the -- GUNSMITH

    What has actually changed ?
    The cartridge for which the license was issued is EXACTLY the same !

    Unless there is some weird kind of paranoia going on here -- which I do not understand ?
    Only thing I can think of is that a bullet that was fired from that gun can no longer be matched to that barrel/gun? All sorts of problems could spin from here...

    Sent from my IN2020 using Tapatalk

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenneke View Post
    Thanks for the great info
    At the risk of further deviation

    In the case of d)

    A rifle is taken to the gunsmith for a barrel replacement
    The cartridge chambering remains the same as on the license.

    The old barrel is scrapped but the serial number -- as per the license ( matching the action ) is transferred to the new barrel -- BY THE GUNSMITH
    Everything matches up nicely NO change

    Does this still need to be reported / re-licensed ?
    Well to throw a spanner in the thought pattern here...

    The act states you may not remove a serial number or identifying mark, it says nothing about adding one.

    Most firearms manufactured in the USA that come into the country as a firearm (including certain barrels in the past) do not have serialized barrels.

    Nice big grey area there, which is the norm for the FCA.

  10. #20
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    Arrow Re: Decent Gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by brukutu View Post
    Only thing I can think of is that a bullet that was fired from that gun can no longer be matched to that barrel/gun? All sorts of problems could spin from here...
    But can it ?

    A recent scientific study by David Klatzow, funded by the broader firearm owning community, to examine the validity of ballistic imaging has shown that there is very little evidence to prove that a certain bullet or cartridge has been fired from a particular firearm.

    https://lowvelder.co.za/415713/new-f...ting-firearms/


    What is the incidence of hunting rifles being used in the commission of a crime ( NOT talking about poaching -- where in many cases the firearm is not legally licensed anyway ! )

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