Should you fire a warning shot?

[Wezza]

[BorisTheBlade]

You are right about warning shots, there are scenarios where a warning shot would be better both tactically and lawfully. SD scenarios, as with all things called life, are dynamic and you will be judged on your case as no one case will be the same.

I will not delve in to where your warning shot fits in but if you do use a warning shot, in a legal way, and things go about average, you'll be unarmed for a few years, poorer and your wife home alone and defenseless for a night or three. The reason being that in most cases cops do not decide what was legal. You will be charged with whatever cops can come up with and the courts will take it from there. At this point you might be thinking you'll retire on the lawsuit brought afterwards but it is a childish, more liking to dangerous, lie. You can not weigh up the seen and unforeseen consequences and most who talk like that have not a clue what they are asking for.
If you believe your warning shot will save a life or you believe in levels of escalation so be it but do not think you will get off lightly with what is essentially a missed attempted murder in the law's eyes.

Sometimes a warning shout would be better but to go too deeply in to any one scenario is not easy. In one case you might literally be begging someone to not make you shoot them and in another you'll...the possibilities are endless.

Goodluck with the training and stay safe

Your point is absolutely valid - the police and the courts may take a less than appreciative view of the supposed tactical cleverness of one's warning shot.

[BorisTheBlade]

Here's a scenario.

You see a bad guy in your backyard armed with an AK47 looking for a way into your house.

- So, do you press the panic button and hope the noise scares him away?

- Do you fire a warning shot, no where near him but rather just like you are taught into a point where the ground meets a wall, entirely safe and away from the perp?

- Do you shout at him and hope he will leave?

- Do you wait until the situation calls for you to actually use your firearm?

This is a good scenario because it sets up well the conundrum I'm exploring: would you deliberately wait and allow a situation to escalate to the point where you are lawfully entitled to use your firearm (i.e. its now life or death), or would you proactively try something to scare off the attacker before it got to that point.

[BorisTheBlade]

A warning shot escalates the scenario.
You assume a warning shot will make the attacker run away, what if he starts shooting back?

Criminals rely heavily on the element of surprise. The last thing they want is a confrontation with a level playing field, in addition to not hanging around and getting arrested. In my opinion while they may shoot back, its highly likely they will also immediately try to get away from the scene.

[BorisTheBlade]

You could hypothesise until the end of time. But as a general rule, by the time shots are required, they're more appropriately directed at the threats centre mass.

The YT channel 'Active self protection' is a great one for examples. But actual force-on-force training will *really* wake you up to how tricky this whole thing is, how fast it can happen, etc etc - you really can't get a great picture just from watching youtube.

I completely agree that theorising on the interwebs is very a different animal from a real life situation. That being said, I think their is immense value in thinking these things through in advance and establishing principles for oneself so that when a situation occurs you are not at a complete loss for what to do, rather you have some basis on which to respond. I mean tis in the same sense as what is meant by the phrase "the training kicks in". If you are firm, clear and practiced in your convictions, I think this helps when the time comes.

[BorisTheBlade]

Nothing about the advice given, which is sound, but just out of pure interest I would really like to know the real stats in SA.
In almost every second article you hear someone shot at suspects who then fled.
Out of those, do those who fled run straight to the police station and says hey bro, I tried to break in at that guys house, but he shot at me, the nerve on that guy go arrest him?

What about the rest of the shots that people hear, do they all get reported, and does the police actually come out?
I have a feeling that it really does not matter that much, we are a lawless country run by criminals, the standards we hold ourselves to is just that.

You're right, it's possible that in our country there will sometimes be no consequences whatsoever. But I suppose one nevertheless does have to be prepared for the eventuality of having to explain oneself to a judge.

[GAZZAMCK]

Criminals rely heavily on the element of surprise. The last thing they want is a confrontation with a level playing field, in addition to not hanging around and getting arrested. In my opinion while they may shoot back, its highly likely they will also immediately try to get away from the scene.

Oh please please please don't take that approach.
It's very similar to "racking a 12 gauge makes people run"

Chances are VERY high they will shoot back,

Just found out one of the casuals in our work complex is ex-ZDF, veteran of 8 years.

Also remember, in terms of de-escalating a situation, you have just achieved the opposite.
You are now liable for where the bullet lands
You have just fired a weapon in a non life threatening situation
You may very well be on the opposite end of a case from the very man you tried to scare off

Criminals don't always rely heavily on the element of surprise, they also rely on fear, brute force and terror.
Your warning shot should be CENTRE MASS to end a imminent threat

[GAZZAMCK]

NHW
paintball gun
Police at house with suspect who opened a case (not sure that's legal)
Lots of back and forth
Lots of threats

[M43]

Nothing about the advice given, which is sound, but just out of pure interest I would really like to know the real stats in SA.
In almost every second article you hear someone shot at suspects who then fled.
Out of those, do those who fled run straight to the police station and says hey bro, I tried to break in at that guys house, but he shot at me, the nerve on that guy go arrest him?

NONE is probably the most correct answer. While I was a cop we regularly had incidents where someone would call in an "injured person" complaint and the "injured person" would claim that he was attacked and stabbed by drunks ....but he would have a bullet in his ass or leg when the paramedics arrived. ALL those stabbings happened "in the bushes next to some other road I cannot remember"

Never "at a house where I was breaking in"

Just last month my brother shot an attacker (one of three) that blocked him off on a rural road outside (A town in Mpumalanga) when he came back from a client. The suspects / armed robbers shot out his one tire, windscreen and right side drivers window. He nailed the one fucker through his left front passenger window. And then drove like a maniac to get away. He went through a police roadblock between (A town in Mpumalanga) and (another town in Mpumalanga), showed them the damage to his car and informed them that he just shot a suspect.

Unfortunately the police members at the Covid roadblock "were not allowed to open a docket" and he was instructed to go back to the rural area police station. He wisely declined and reported the incident later that night at his local police station. I think they are still trying to figure out where to transfer the docket, but at least the insurance fixed my brother's car. He didn't have to surrender his gun for ballistics testing, the rest of the suspects probably sorted out their dead buddy...

...And everyone lived happily ever after.

[414gates]

... I tried to break in at that guys house, but he shot at me....

You cannot shot anyone that is not threatening your life.

Wether they are breaking in, in already or carrying stuff out, you are not legally permitted to shoot.

Only if they are trying to kill you or your family.

Get familiar with the law, so that if you ever have an incident, you don't end up the criminal.