Why the Byrna and other non lethal kits is a kak-idee (shit idea for those that can not understand

[Finkelstein]

In South Africa firearms and airguns are regulated by the Firearms Act, Act 60 of 2000, which state that airguns of a calibre greater then 5.56mm and that shoot a projectile with an energy of more then 8Joules is classified as a firearm.

This mean to be legal, the Byrna that Safari&Outdoor advertise for R6499 as being able to disable a threat from 60feet, must have less then 8Joules of energy in order to be legal in South Africa.



To relate the amount of energy:
A 115 grain 9mmP round at 1180fps or 360meters per second have 481 Joules!
A 115grain +P+ at 1400fps have 679 Joules.



How can a reputeable firm like S&O advertise this as being able to disable a threat? At R2000- less then a Glock19 Gen3? I understand people want to buy something that they can immediately walk out of the shop with, but this will get people killed when they use it as a wrongly trusted selfdefence tool.




In my opinion it is worse the a .25acp, that Jeff Cooper once said is only good to really upset your assailant!

The FBI thought in the 9mmP is underpowered to neutralise a assailant- now people are made to believe a less then 8Joule pepperball gun will make a voilent criminal loose interest in you.

I know I am preaching to the chior, but this really upsets me.

[oafpatroll]

I agree with you in respect of relative uselessness of the device but they sell real guns to people who will be no less useless in their application of them. The fact that the purchaser has the patience to apply for a gun license is no indication of whether it will be any better at saving their arse than the splatter ball projector that they can can walk out with on the day of purchase.

[Steven001]

I agree with you in respect of relative uselessness of the device but they sell real guns to people who will be no less useless in their application of them. The fact that the purchaser has the patience to apply for a gun license is no indication of whether it will be any better at saving their arse than the splatter ball projector that they can can walk out with on the day of purchase.

Sadly this is true, people get a gun, carry on an empty chamber when they do carry, and expect it to be a magic wand when the shit hits the turbine, makes it no more effective than a spicy bb gun


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[Wild coast]

There is nothing reputable about the business model of S&O I have seen it in action.

They are going to get your money off you by any means.

The obvious flaw with the system is that the attackers that you are less lethalling can at any moment decide to lethal you. This is because criminal scum are not bound by liberal values. Now I’m really stating the obvious.

[Bundu Ric]

Care to share?

There is nothing reputable about the business model of S&O I have seen it in action.

They are going to get your money off you by any means.

[Wild coast]

Care to share?

I’m talking about the Stellenbosch branch at least, there is a certain salesperson there using very aggressive marketing tactics, very successfully. I would imagine this individual has a degree in psychology or something similar, or is just very astute on which buttons to push in the human brain after accurately profiling the character of the ‘victims’.

[oafpatroll]

I’m talking about the Stellenbosch branch at least, there is a certain salesperson there using very aggressive marketing tactics, very successfully. I would imagine this individual has a degree in psychology or something similar, or is just very astute on which buttons to push in the human brain after accurately profiling the character of the ‘victims’.

I have a bunch of expensive fly fishing gear that I bought from just such a sales guy when I popped into a shop in Dullstroom to pick up some flys. The guy read me like a book and knew exactly what grade of word grease I needed on my wallet vault hinges. Was very impressed once I got over the embarrassment of being played like a hillbilly's fiddle.

[inanabhay]

The sad reality is that a very large number (if not the majority) of firearms owners, don't EDC. They keep their "EDC" pieces in the safe, firmly "believing" that they are safe.

[Finkelstein]

The sad reality is that a very large number (if not the majority) of firearms owners, don't EDC. They keep their "EDC" pieces in the safe, firmly "believing" that they are safe.

I’m one of them. I do however carry whenever I’m traveling or planning to come home after dark. My work- Department of Health- does not allow EDC. One of my colleagues got fired for carrying at work.

My safe at home is prepped when I get home. I do however have electric fence, perimetre alarms and door contacts to at least give me 90seconds to brandish my gun.

I know its not optimal- I am planning to buy an extra gun and stuck it in a Pangolin carsafe as a plan in case I have car problems.

[MSW2]

I’m one of them. I do however carry whenever I’m traveling or planning to come home after dark. My work- Department of Health- does not allow EDC. One of my colleagues got fired for carrying at work.

My safe at home is prepped when I get home. I do however have electric fence, perimetre alarms and door contacts to at least give me 90seconds to brandish my gun.

I know its not optimal- I am planning to buy an extra gun and stuck it in a Pangolin carsafe as a plan in case I have car problems.

Have you considered a smaller fa and deep concealment? If you do it right nobody will know.