http://www.fortisgroup.co.za/

[BigT]

I've been shot with a pepperball gun. IMHO its a crowd control device not a self defence tool.

[HoggerNaut]

^^^^^
Ding ding ding

[Rudes]

I find the notion of using non-lethal force as a response against a lethal force attack to be illogical. When an armed intruder is attacking me I want to neutralize the threat as quickly and effectively as possible. That means putting as many bullets into the attackers vitals as is required to stop the threat. Even with a firearm you do not try and shoot the attacker in the leg or arm to try and stop a determined attack against your life.

We are not talking about firing warning shots or tying to scare a would be attacker away here but about defending yourself against a lethal force attack. My personal opinion is that firearms should only be used in the latter case in anyway.

[h0stag3]

I've been shot with a pepperball gun. IMHO its a crowd control device not a self defence tool.

BigT, why were you shot with a pepper ball? :-P

[HoggerNaut]

IMHO its a crowd control device not a self defence tool.

And awesome for shooting unwanted cats and dogs that moan all night long.

[SSP]

Non lethal tools have their place, most appropriately in LE.

The problem with them in a civilian setting is that what do you do when they are not effective? There is nothing to escalate too.

Most people are reluctant to hurt others. That's just how they are programmed. When offered a non lethal option to defend themselves, they will probably take it. This may result in there being no time to transition to lethal force, which may have been necessary from the outset.

[Akoula]

I have used gas guns and seen their effect as well as have been on Fortis's courses. Now, let me tell you one thing, these are not toys and are extremely effective. there are many pro's in using them for home defence as well as in tactical situations. Lack of muzzle flash, kick, pinpoint-able noise, but that is going off the main question. Yes, the guys are legit been-there-done that trainers with real world experience and they teach with a tool that is every bit as effective for defence.

I have been on many many civilian courses and they are top of the list. the also train other non civilians, so that itself is testament. and yes, they again implement the use of gas guns too.

Perhaps go visit their store and see if you can play down the power and effectiveness of their gas gun. I would bet my beret you would change your mindset real fast sir.

[SSP]

I have used gas guns and seen their effect as well as have been on Fortis's courses. Now, let me tell you one thing, these are not toys and are extremely effective. there are many pro's in using them for home defence as well as in tactical situations. Lack of muzzle flash, kick, pinpoint-able noise, but that is going off the main question. Yes, the guys are legit been-there-done that trainers with real world experience and they teach with a tool that is every bit as effective for defence.

I have been on many many civilian courses and they are top of the list. the also train other non civilians, so that itself is testament. and yes, they again implement the use of gas guns too.

Perhaps go visit their store and see if you can play down the power and effectiveness of their gas gun. I would bet my beret you would change your mindset real fast sir.

1. Post an intro, like the forum rules require.
2. Every bit as effective as what?
3. Who have you trained with?
4. Which "pros" are using these in "tactical situations"?

[Glockster]

BigT, why were you shot with a pepper ball? :-P

Because he's big and would taste terrible without spice. His body language indicated a need to be shot at.

[racingfreak]

BigT, why were you shot with a pepper ball? :-P

It's a form of S&M for firearm instructors...